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Cyberlimbs Tank Proof of Concept

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Marcus

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« Reply #15 on: (16:18:35/03-01-18) »
So, assuming =Y= is no object... is there any game mechanic that'd punish you for having 1 str but cyberlimbs all at racial maximums?
If you take an action that involves more then just the limb you do something called stat averaging. It's discussed somewhere the core.
Sufficient to say you reduce the amount of stat the limb gives you a large amount.

Further in the American version, Limit is not calculated based upon cymber limb attributes, ie if had 4 limbs with 11 str and your main line was 1 str, for the limit calculation you have 1 str.

So two places I guess.
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firebug

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« Reply #16 on: (20:14:30/03-01-18) »
So, assuming =Y= is no object... is there any game mechanic that'd punish you for having 1 str but cyberlimbs all at racial maximums?

Limits are the major one.  In particular, keep in mind your Physical Limit determines how easy it is to knock you down.  That can easily make you useless in combat.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

« Reply #17 on: (21:49:59/03-01-18) »
Lots of good info; thanks for the input everyone.

Very excited about being tipped off about the Restricted Gear quality... being able to start play already with a Pain Editor takes this from being an academic exercise to being a possible character for actual play!

Having the armor to turn everything into stun damage and the combined condition monitors to soak more damage than a tank is perhaps gimmicky, but honestly pretty dang helpful in a fight.  Not particularly so perhaps in those cases where everything is going your way and you're attacking from cover of an ambush on hapless, surprised targets... but definitely so in those cases where the PCs are the ones being ambushed or just one of those wrong place/wrong time situations and an unplanned fight is occurring anyway.  firebug has an excellent point about being a juggernaut of a can't-be-killed zombie type isn't by itself helpful.  I'm thinking max skill in autofire weapons (and the str to be credible laying down the lead hose) is enough for 90% of the fights, and the rest of the time where Assault rifles aren't the right tool for the job specializing in some martial arts/grappling will be very handy (need to capture a target alive?  Check.  don't have weapons that can hurt a spirit?  Fine I'll just clinch him and neutralize him until he de-manifests...)

I'd like to go back to a point made upthread and elsewhere: your character really should be able to contribute more than just in narrow circumstances.  The Tank archetype pregen for example, is similar in that it's an expensive metahuman (troll in this case) and has low skills.  The rulebook Tank adds some outside-combat utility by having skilljack/skillwires... but I won't be going down that route.  A) I just did it on my covert ops char, B) going 4 limbs really does eat up not just essence but also the resources even at priority A.

So I can't feasibly get away with making STR a dump stat to help get a leg up on non-combat skills.  The basic background idea I had for someone with 4 cyberlimbs was that he barely survived a house fire, hence the replacement limbs for those that were ruined by fire.  This gave a natural idea for phobia:fire- gonna need lots of negative qualities anyway to get the +25 karma, neh?  So I'm thinking of spending some of that karma on more/better contacts, since low CHA doesn't leave you much in that department w/o karma investment.  So he'll get a decently well-connected Firefighter contact (a Lieutenant or such)- not only fits naturally into what's burgeoning into a background story, it is a contact almost noone ever takes yet is incredibly useful for shadowrunners.  Honestly, why am I the only one I've ever seen take a Firefighter?  Why have the decker hack up some floorplans when your firefighter buddy can just use emergency personnel access to give them over to you? :)  AND they've got a finger on emergency matrix communications without having any ties/loyalty to the police... I'd rather have a firefighter tell me where the cop blockades are than a cop...

Parting thought for now:  I struggled with the name for the proof of concept character.  I'm thinking Francis Dollarhyde aka "Red Dragon" is a fun steal that's pretty appropro for a character with the combination of Cyber Singularity Seeker/Superhuman Psychopath qualities!  Even gives a complete lineup of knowledge skills to pick...

« Last Edit: (21:53:17/03-01-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

Marcus

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« Reply #18 on: (22:37:07/03-01-18) »
oh god No Steel, skip the psychosis and get a decent code of honor.
Just defy fate make tank who isn't epic Jerk for love metahumanity.
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« Reply #19 on: (02:31:37/03-02-18) »
oh god No Steel, skip the psychosis and get a decent code of honor.
Just defy fate make tank who isn't epic Jerk for love metahumanity.

Heh.  Well SRM disallows quite a few negative qualities.  Just about every Code of Honor included.  It sometimes feels like there's more that's disallowed than allowed.

But still, I suppose I was going full on cliche there.  How much fun would it be to make a cybered up tough who's NOT a terminator wannabe?

You do have me looking at some other options for negative qualities at least.  Superhuman Psychosis, being half advantage and half disadvantage is only -2, so there's really only so much I could swap it out for.  If I look at not doubling down on being socially inept I could also drop 'Did you just call me dumb?" and together they're -5 points to re-pick.

Fun find:  Critter Spook fits perfectly, but even better it's a passive aggro drawing quality!  It'd be giving me karma for an ability I'd WANT to have as a tank!  Something fun for a background could be that he just loves dogs, but with his essence so low and smelling so funny with all the metal and chrome dogs really just don't love him back.  It just gets tragic when they're guard dogs.
« Last Edit: (02:35:26/03-02-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

« Reply #20 on: (14:00:14/03-02-18) »
Ok so here's a Mark II Ork Tank incorporating the things I've learned and some of the excellent advice given upthread:

== Personal Data ==
Name: Vunter Slaush Alias: Palatin
Ork Movement: 6/12 (2m/hit) Swim: 8 (1m/hit)
Composure: 8
Street Cred: 0 Judge Intentions: 5
Notoriety: 0 Lift/Carry: 15 (105 kg/70 kg)
Public Awareness: 0 Memory: 9
Karma: 0 Nuyen: 1,220¥
Primary Arm: Right

== Priorities ==
Metatype: C,2
Attributes: B,3
Special: E,0
Skills: D,1
Resources: A,4

== Attributes ==
BOD: 8 CHA: 1
AGI: 3 (5) INT: 4
REA: 5 (6) LOG: 2
STR: 5 (7) WIL: 5 (7)
EDG: 2

== Derived Attributes
Essence: 2.02 Initiative: 10 +1d6
Physical Damage Track: 16Rigger Initiative: 10 +1d6
Stun Damage Track: 12Astral Initiative:
Physical: 10 Matrix AR: 10 +1d6
Hydraulic Jacks [+6] (Only with Jumping and Sprinting)
Hydraulic Jacks [+6] (Only with Jumping and Sprinting)
Mental: 5 Matrix Cold: 4 + DP +3d6
Medkit [+6] (Only for First Aid and Medicine)
Social: 4 Matrix Hot: 4 + DP +4d6
Ballistic Mask [+1] (Only for intimidation, Must be visible)
Astral: 5

== Active Skills ==
Automatics (Assault Rifles) Base: 6 + Karma: 0 = 6 Pool: 11 (13)
Cybertechnology Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 3
Gymnastics Base: 4 + Karma: 0 = 4 Pool: 9
Running Base: 0 + Karma: 1 = 1 Pool: 8
Sneaking (Urban) Base: 3 + Karma: 0 = 3 Pool: 8 (10)
Unarmed Combat (Brawling) Base: 6 + Karma: 0 = 6 Pool: 11 (13)

== Knowledge Skills ==
English Native
Gangs Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 6
History (Western Europe) Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 3 (5)
Philosophy (Kantian) Base: 3 + Karma: 0 = 3 Pool: 5 (7)
RenFaires Base: 1 + Karma: 0 = 1 Pool: 5
Small Unit Tactics (Urban) Base: 2 + Karma: 0 = 2 Pool: 6 (8)

== Qualities ==
Allergy (Common, Mild) (Alcohol)
Critter Spook
Cyber-Singularity Seeker
Low-Light Vision
Phobia (Common, Moderate) (Fire)
Restricted Gear (Pain Editor)

== Lifestyle ==
Flophouse (Low) 1 Months

== Cyberware==
(All Alphaware)
Datajack
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 6, STR 9, Physical 11) (Left)
+ Customized StrengthRating 7
+ ArmorRating 2
+ Commlink
+ Cyberfinger (Fingerlight)
+ Customized AgilityRating 5
+ Enhanced StrengthRating 2
+ Enhanced AgilityRating 1
Obvious Full Arm (AGI 7, STR 10, Physical 12) (Right)
+ Customized StrengthRating 7
+ ArmorRating 2
+ Customized AgilityRating 5
+ Enhanced StrengthRating 3
+ Enhanced AgilityRating 2
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 5, STR 6, Physical 9) (Left)
+ Customized StrengthRating 6
+ ArmorRating 2
+ Hydraulic JacksRating 6
+ Biomonitor
+ Auto Injector
+ Auto Injector Expansion
+ Customized AgilityRating 5
Obvious Full Leg (AGI 5, STR 6, Physical 9) (Right)
+ Customized StrengthRating 6
+ ArmorRating 2
+ Hydraulic JacksRating 6
+ Large Smuggling Compartment
+ Customized AgilityRating 5
Reaction EnhancersRating
Smartlink
==Bioware==
Pain Editor

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket 12
+ Fire Resistance 4
+ Nonconductivity 4
Ballistic Mask 2
+ Thermographic Vision
Helmet 2
+ Single SensorRating 2 x2
+ UltrasoundRating 2

== Weapons ==
AK-97 ("Longsword")
+ Foregrip
+ Gas-Vent 3 System
+ Sling
+ Smartgun System, External
+ Spare Clip
+ Spare Clip
+ Shock Pad
Pool: 11 (13)Accuracy: 7 DV: 10P AP: -2 RC: 9
Steyr TMP
+ Laser Sight
+ Smartgun System, Internal
+ Sound Suppressor
+ Spare Clip
+ Spare Clip
Pool: 11 Accuracy: 6 DV: 7P AP: - RC: 4
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 11 Accuracy: 10 DV: 7S AP: - RC: 4

== Martial Arts ==
Boxing (Brawler Style)
+ Full OffenseFull OffenseRG137

== Commlink ==
Transys Avalon (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 6, FWL: 6)
+ Signal Scrub
+ Browse
+ Encryption
+ Sim Module

== Gear: Equipped ==
Ammo: APDS (Assault Rifles) x120
Ammo: APDS (Submachine Guns) x100
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Assault Rifles) x120
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Submachine Guns) x100
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Assault Rifles) x120
AR Gloves
Certified Credstick, Standard
Climbing Gear
Datachip "Complete works of Immanuel Kant"
Datachip "Bushido: Art of War, Book of Five Rings, Japanese History"
Datachip "Chivalry: Le Morte d'Arthur, History of Charlemagne, History of Medieval Europe"
Fake SIN (UCAS: Johnnie Walker) Rating 4
+ Fake License (Restricted Cyberware License) Rating 4
+ Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 4
Flashlight, Low-light
Medkit Rating 6
Respirator Rating 6
Restraint, Metal
Restraint, Plastic x10
Slap Patch, Stim Patch Rating 6 x6
Tool Kit (Cybertechnology)

== Contacts ==
Cybertechnician (Street Doc), (Connection: 3, Loyalty: 1)
FD Lieutenant (Firefighter), (Connection: 5, Loyalty: 1)


I think he's more fun as a wannabe Knight in Shining Armor than a generic Cybernetic Psycho.  Even switched his Philosophical specialization to represent the shift!
So he hits the 16 dice threshold for offense with the Assault Rifle and with Unarmed Combat when using the Full Offense Martial Arts trick.  And why would he ever NOT use full offense?  What, like he's gonna dodge attacks anyway? :)  That oughta let him credibly contribute to ending fights rather than just surviving them.  Unfortunately that doesn't leave much for skills after that, so he's admittedly weak in the Legwork and Recon stages of a Shadowrun.  But I think the Firefighter contact and some cybernetic augmentations (Jacks, Smuggling Compartment) can led some assistance to the recon phase as well.

I don't like that he's Resources A and still has to beg for a ride, but being a helpful team-focused type makes it much more palatable than being a cyber psycho type :) 

Edit:  I wrote this for his table-tent.  Definitely more fun character than a carbon copy psycho type.

Name: Palatin.  Role: Tank.

Capabilities: Combat, Not Dying, Helping you to Not Die.
Apparent Qualities: Ork, 4 Obvious Cyberlimbs, Surprisingly Philosophical, Interest in Knights in Shining Armor, Won’t drink Alcohol, Loves Puppies, Not too comfortable around Fire.

Background: Considers himself “reborn” after having barely survived a house fire.  Replacement limbs made him even tougher than the street ganger he was before, and decided his calling in life was to protect those unable to protect themselves.  Not too many legit job opportunities in protecting the weak for a SINless Ork, however…
« Last Edit: (15:18:21/03-02-18) by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »

FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #21 on: (18:22:48/03-02-18) »
You can save some money for a vehicle and other stuff by taking down the rating of your limbs (or at least one or a few of them). You have the essence for it. A used limb can fit more armor and can get higher custom stats without hitting availability limit. You can even bulk them up for more capacity and stay under limit. Ex. A single used cyberarm, especially bulked, can usually fit a built in weapon...an ever-present machine pistol or shockhand is nice.     


and based on silly rules (but rules nonetheless), having Charisma 1 and no con skill makes the character very vulnerable to anyone trying to lie to them. You resit con checks with Charisma + Con.... which character would have 0 dice for... Character will believe anything anyone tells them with any conviction (one con hit). 
« Last Edit: (18:25:39/03-02-18) by FST_Gemstar »

« Reply #22 on: (23:39:03/03-02-18) »
That's great advice.  I saved over 60,000 =Y= by swapping the arms from alphaware to used.  That did indeed allow me to max out the customization, enhancement, and armor on both.  I got a Spur and a shock hand and a Car and I'm still finding ways to spend the rest of it..

I was planning on getting some Wired Reflexes with all that "spare" essence I had, but meh.  If/when I replace the arms with alphaware versions of the same upgraded nature, I'll possibly be able to squeeze wires in.  But I'm thinking I'm liking the suggestion upthread about just using combat drugs instead of wires.  Kamikaze is almost replicating Wires 2 for the risk of making addiction checks.  It's physiological only, and with throwing 15 dice against a threshold of 3 it should be mostly safe long-term :)

« Reply #23 on: (15:10:59/03-22-18) »
A fun update:  I loved how this character turned out, and in tweaking him around for being a backup Neo-Tokyo SRM character I found myself asking that if 4 cyberlimbs worked out so marvelously, what about making a Nartaki and having SIX cyberlimbs?

What I learned: It doesn't work out as well.  I figured out a way to squeeze it all in, but I couldn't afford CyberSingularity AND Restricted Gear AND biocompatability.  Can't drop the first because what's the point then with going with 6 cyberlimbs.  Can't drop the last because even at resources A you need it to have both essence AND nuyen left over after getting 6 cyberlimbs.  Which means you HAVE to go without restricted gear, which means no pain editor.  I went with the ghetto option in an adrenaline boost- still get to ignore injury modifiers and full stun CM but only for 1d6 combat rounds.    Between that and having lower base physical stats than the Ork, it's just not a step up.  It's not even a step sideways.. this 4 cyberlimbed tank just flat out works better than a potential 6 limbed one based on human stats and having capabilities beyond the cyberlimbs.  Even the opportunities for multiple attacks just seemed "meh" when arrayed against a dude with a FA gun.

firebug

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« Reply #24 on: (15:24:35/03-22-18) »
I appreciate that you at least found a way to make Nartaki useful in theory.  I think that's the first time I've heard of an actual mechanical benefit to having extra arms besides "uh I guess I could hold a sword and an assault rifle so I don't have to get a bayonet".  Hey, it's an idea for an NPC at least.  Or if you ever make a Prime Runner who begins with extra karma for PQs and nuyen.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

« Reply #25 on: (17:25:07/03-22-18) »
I appreciate that you at least found a way to make Nartaki useful in theory.  I think that's the first time I've heard of an actual mechanical benefit to having extra arms besides "uh I guess I could hold a sword and an assault rifle so I don't have to get a bayonet".  Hey, it's an idea for an NPC at least.  Or if you ever make a Prime Runner who begins with extra karma for PQs and nuyen.

Well.. Splitting your dice pool(s) up when you're making 4 attacks governed by 4 different skills is pretty frikkin awesomely effective.  Narataki with 4 attacks sharing one Blades skill pool is lame... 1 unarmed attack, 1 stun baton attack, 1 katana attack, and 1 point blank pistol shot is death incarnate.  Pretty much building a tank with a Narataki is a waste of potential... just go cuisinart :)