NEWS

Kill Code

  • 87 Replies
  • 5025 Views

Reaver

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5660
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #60 on: (20:15:23/08-09-18) »
think closer to september...

Ouch...

That is what I get for getting excited about a product.  Let's hope the excitement holds long enough.

Just hold your breath till in comes out!


Won't make it any faster really, but unconsciousness makes time move faster :D
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Jack_Spade

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6207
« Reply #61 on: (00:43:23/08-10-18) »
Well, that would be a really good opportunity to clean up the PDF and correct any known errors (like those the review on reddit pointed out).
Maybe give Sphinx here a sneak preview - they are usually very diligent compiling error lists...
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Marcus

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2062
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #62 on: (02:04:59/08-10-18) »
Eh I think take break for a couple weeks until it releases. New job starts Monday, and I have 2 other things I wanna finish writing.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Iron Serpent Prince

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 73
« Reply #63 on: (08:50:04/08-10-18) »
think closer to september...

Ouch...

That is what I get for getting excited about a product.  Let's hope the excitement holds long enough.

Just hold your breath till in comes out!


Won't make it any faster really, but unconsciousness makes time move faster :D

Heh!  Sounds like my college years, so long ago...  :P

At least I can stop mashing my F5 key reloading the DriveThruRPG page...


To pass the time, here are the things I would like to see.  (Not expect to see.)

  • The "anatomy" of a SIN:  I've always wondered if the SIN is broadcast "in the clear," meaning anyone who can see the the comm icon can see the SIN, or if it is encrypted in any way.  I'd also like to know if a SIN is just an alphanumeric number, or are the details that are tied to the SIN broadcast as well.  I can see either happening, I just want to know if everyone is walking around broadcasting their driver's licenses (essentially) to help all the stalkers in the world.
  • Just what the Wrapper program is supposed to do:  This may be more of an errata item, but RAW the wrapper program seems pretty useless.  Which leads into...
  • How is Matrix Perception intended to work:  This is another maybe-errata item, but I'm curious if something like "I want a list of all the Persona's / Devices running Wrapper" is really intended to be a legit use of the action.  Right now, that particular use is a table by table call kind of thing.

That is some of the things I'd like to see in the "Matrix 101" section (that is what the reddit review called it, not sure that is the actual section title).

living

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
« Reply #64 on: (15:50:36/08-10-18) »
any news?

i have forgotten how many years i wait...

Reaver

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 5660
  • 60% alcohol 40% asshole...
« Reply #65 on: (18:30:21/08-10-18) »
any news?

i have forgotten how many years i wait...

Then a little won't hurt will it :p

(No new news)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

living

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 315
« Reply #66 on: (06:50:05/08-11-18) »
well... after getting bored of waiting, stop playing like 6 month ago (which made my playgroup stop playing) and just ignore it, now after the gencon announcment im excited again, want to restart the playgroup etc. and find me just waiting again.

Rip Cord

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 6
« Reply #67 on: (14:17:35/08-11-18) »
I have Kill Code in hand.

There is a really good description of the Matrix.
Then New tech from Matrix damaging bullets to Create your own Deck.
The Technomancer chapter is crazy. It has  4 types of Technomancer: Thread,  Sprite, Drone and a Technoadept. They have Paragons that are basically Guardian Spirits and all sorts of options for sprites, threads and more submersions.
It gives a lot of options that are reflections of Magic Users.
There are whole chapters on technocritters and Matrix entities that reflect the Metaplanar spirits.
Finally, it has a very detailed Table of Contents and a Rules Index!!!

My only complaint is that it has a number of clerical errors. They are minor, but annoy me.

I have only skimmed it and focused on parts that caught my eye (maybe 2 or 3 hours of reading), but this is the first Source Book I plan to read cover to cover.

Telin

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 3
« Reply #68 on: (17:31:49/08-11-18) »
Hey Iron Serpent Prince,
Quote
Just what the Wrapper program is supposed to do:  This may be more of an errata item, but RAW the wrapper program seems pretty useless.  Which leads into...
I don't really understand how you think it is useless...

From SR5 CRB (246)
Quote
Wrapper: This program overrides the Matrix’s protocols for icons. While this program is running, your icons can be anything you want them to be when you use the Change Icon action. From the lens of the Matrix, your Hammer program could look like a music file, your Ares Predator icon could look like a credstick, and your own persona could look like a Mitsubishi Nightsky. Another persona can see what the disguised icon really is with a Matrix Perception Test, but they need to at least suspect enough to check (Matrix Perception, p. 241).

I suppose, as with most things Decker/'Mancer, it depends on how out the box you think, or how much your GM will let you get away with. RAW though, it is pretty potent as it applies to an icon. Which is everything in the matrix.
SR5 CRB (216)
Quote
icon: The virtual representation of a device, persona, file, or host, in the Matrix.
The real limit here is that you must be allowed to perform a Change Icon action on the Icon. Which for a few marks...(2: Control Device, or Puppeteer)
For example:
  • in one game I disguised a Ares Pred. V as an insulin pump before we walked into a secure area. No one is going to look at a medical device under my jacket and think too much of it (Before the MAG Scans that is...).
  • Have a drone deposit a brick of explosives with a ComLink and wrap the whole thing as a HVAC Temperature Sensor
  • Do you have a rigger in a hovering vehicle? Wrap the vehicle as something else, say a Weather Monitoring Drone, or if they are on a rooftop, an AC unit, or an advert for an underground rave...
  • Want the guy you are negotiating with to think you have more firepower than you do? Change the Nagakasi outside into a Tank. Change the Gun Bunny's Pred. V into the best gun you can think of before the meet. Bonus Points: Change the Face's comlink into a Bomb-Vest.


You can make ANY icon appear to be ANY other type of Icon... The limits here are whatever you can think of...

Somewhat confusing,by my take, is the interaction of the new icon with the safety protocols of the matrix. Specifically, this part in SR5 CRB (219):
Quote
Some devices are not merged into the single PAN icon; if an individual is carrying a wireless-enabled gun—or any other wireless device that might kill you—it will show up separately so that it can be identified rapidly. Unless, of course, the user has gone to the trouble to hide that icon, but that’ll be covered later.

So by default, if I have a gun on my person and I have it in my PAN, I still have two Icons. My PAN and my Gun. With Wrapper I could disguise the gun as an insulin pump. Since an Insulin pump isn't going to kill you, I now have 1 Icon (My PAN) and nothing is running silent, if your GM allows this. So a matrix perception with the question of: "Are there any Icons running silent?" turns up a no for me...

On the other hand, if the gun is hardwired, or programmed to always display the icon, then that's another thing. But also opens up to being modified with a Software, or Hardware test... for which there are no rules on in the books, as far as I know... so... :shrug:

kainite311

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • PC's are just murder hobo's...
« Reply #69 on: (12:24:19/08-12-18) »
So what is it to spot that it is fake(wrapper). Away from book, but I recall it said it only stands up to a casual glance at best.
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

Mirikon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8805
  • "Everybody lies." --House
« Reply #70 on: (12:44:22/08-12-18) »
So what is it to spot that it is fake(wrapper). Away from book, but I recall it said it only stands up to a casual glance at best.
Matrix Perception. But they have to actually make a Matrix Perception test on the icon. Which means that if you make the icon look like it belongs, people are less likely to actively check it out.

Put it this way, if you're at coffee shop, are you going to pay much attention to an icon that says it is a coffeemaker when you're looking for commlinks? The key to using Wrapper is to make the icon look like something that is supposed to be there, so that people and programs are more likely to ignore it.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

Marcus

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2062
  • Success always demands a greater effort.
« Reply #71 on: (12:47:41/08-12-18) »
It's the D&D Illusion conundrum writ into VR. If you function in AR almost all the time. How many icons a day do you think you would see? How many adds do you see when you read your Gmail? Or Facebook? or even just run a google search. Odds are you wouldn't even notice them, like adds your brain learns to just not even pay them attention.
*Play-by-Post color guide*
Thinking
com
speaking

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • *
  • Posts: 6995
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #72 on: (13:18:30/08-12-18) »
People tend to filter out types of icons too, so they don't get overwhelmed. If that Spider is known to not look for Underwear or Potted Plants, because those are everywhere in the frickin' facility, then you could be a moving potted plant.
CorpSec when an alarm is triggered;: "This is so sad, Alexa play Shoot The Runner"

Lorebane24

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 301
« Reply #73 on: (13:22:29/08-12-18) »
Clever use of wrapper, if the GM is playing the NPCs realistically, can be kind of nuts.  I was in a game once were our party survived a prison plane crash and then had to do battle with the guards amongst the wreckage.  My decker zoned out behind a big piece of debris and used wrapper to make his icon look like one of the many guard-issue sidearms that were littered about the crash scene.
The power of the Tri-Horse!

Iron Serpent Prince

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 73
« Reply #74 on: (13:34:24/08-12-18) »
@Telin, lets break down all the ways that Wrapper is a waste of word count - as written.

If you want to change the way an Icon looks, use Change Icon.

The only reason to do otherwise is if you want to smuggle an item with a digital signature somewhere it doesn't belong.

Wireless off.  Cheaper, easier, and doesn't leave you open to anything else in this post.

If, for some unfathomable reason, Wireless off isn't practical, use Universal Mirror Material.  The most obvious use for what Wrapper should do is hiding a weapon.  Line your Concealable Quick-draw Holster with Rating 2 Universal Mirror Material, and your weapon is effectively offline until drawn.  A pistol shouldn't require a square meter, so you should be able to get it for cheaper than the ¥500 base cost.  Even if not, that is a small investment for Wirelessly concealing your gun until drawn.

Continuing with using Wrapper though...

"Security through obscurity isn't any security at all."

So, you are running Wrapper.  Guess what?  Those chokepoints/checkpoints you are trying to smuggle your item through?  Those can easily use Matrix Perception - Devices running Wrapper.  Depending on your particular GMs call, it could be spotted automatically if within 100m.  It may require a test.  Again, depending on your GMs call, it may be as easy as a single hit.

Now, the security there knows that person right there is running Wrapper.  Even if you argue that they can only perform one Matrix Perception per Combat Turn, that is still 20 Icons observed every minute.  With each Icon, they perform Matrix Perception - What are you?  It only takes 1 hit to realize what the Icon type really is.  So that gerbil in your pocket really is a weapon / heavy pistol / whatever your GM rules the Matrix returns the description as.

Now we get to the really problematic part of Wrapper.

It violates Matrix Protocols.

So?

Well, when you perform Sleaze actions, you generate Overwatch Score.  When you perform Attack actions, you generate Overwatch Score.  Why?  Because you are violating Matrix Protocols.

Wrapper should generate Overwatch Score.  It doesn't.  So then either it can't be violating Matrix Protocols (and can't really work as written), or it opens up a way to adapt to violate all other Matrix Protocols without generating Overwatch Score.

Then there is the fundamental problem with the way it interacts with Matrix Perception.  Matrix Perception isn't like a real sense.  Matrix Perception is what the Matrix tells you the device / object / Icon is.  So, if an observer can "see" through Wrapper, that means the Matrix can too.  In order for an observer to be able to get what the device really is when the Icon looks differently, that means the Matrix already "knows" the device isn't what it looks like.  That means Wrapper isn't fooling anyone.

Wrapper is a drek burger wrapped in sewage bun.  It is poorly thought out, and poorly written.  It just doesn't work in the paradigm that is the Matrix as written.  If it works at all, it should generate Overwatch Score.

Either that, or the Matrix just doesn't work as it is written.
« Last Edit: (13:37:59/08-12-18) by Iron Serpent Prince »