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Nanohives, Cost and Availability

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Scrollreader

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« on: (12:21:09/12-07-17) »
So I'm building a Decker, and looking at Chrome Flesh, I have some questions.

If I buy a nanohive (soft, if it matters) do I also need to buy nanotech independently?  The hive is set up to make one kind of nanoware specifically (if I understand correctly) and make more up to the rating of the nanohive.

So if I buy a rating 2 soft nanohive, to run Neocortical nanos, do I need to spend the money and the availability (via restricted gear) on the nanos /AND/ the hive?  Or does the hive and the essence cost take care of the nanites?

EDIT: And if I do need to buy the nanos separate from the hive, can I just buy them at rating 1, and let the hive catch me up? 
« Last Edit: (12:23:10/12-07-17) by Scrollreader »

Mirikon

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« Reply #1 on: (13:16:22/12-07-17) »
You would need to buy both separately, yes. Buying the hive gives you the ability to keep the nano running, since otherwise it would break down as the nano leaves your system via waste and other methods over time. But that's the equivalent of buying a jump drive. You still have to buy something to put on the jump drive.

And no, if you bought the nano at rating 1, regardless of the rating of the hive, the nano would remain rating 1.
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Scrollreader

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« Reply #2 on: (13:23:42/12-07-17) »
... so if I buy nano at rating 3, and it is reduced to 1 (or 0) from damage ... The hive can make new nano to get me back up to the rating of the hive.  But if buy it at rating 1 (or 0) it can't?  That seems really counterintuitive.  Do you have a page reference where I can see what I missed?

Mirikon

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« Reply #3 on: (15:13:49/12-07-17) »
It isn't counterintuitive at all. When nanoware supported by the hive has its rating reduced, the nanohive restores the nano to original strength, up to the rating of the nanohive itself. That does not mean it increases the actual rating of the nanoware. You still have to buy the higher level stuff for that.
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Scrollreader

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« Reply #4 on: (15:47:56/12-07-17) »
So the vial of nanobots I buy (16F, 7.5-22.5k nuyen) has a hard coded top end?   :o

    I'm just struggling to see how a nanohive is capable of manufacturing 2 million nanites when I lose nanites, but not capable of manufacturing them when I get started.  Especially when the nanohive only makes one kind of nanites.

   I guess it's just a game balance thing, and I should leave my logic at the door.

Mirikon

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« Reply #5 on: (16:10:20/12-07-17) »
The higher the rating of the nanoware, the more sophisticated the programming and construction is. The ability to make more of the nano does not translate into being able to upgrade that nano. Your 'logic' is like saying if you drink enough rotgut whiskey it will somehow turn into top shelf whiskey. It is why you can't just get two R1 systems and say it is an R2.
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #6 on: (16:13:12/12-07-17) »
Quick heads-up: Neocortical nanites are Soft Nanites, not Hard. The second table of nanites (on page 150) is incorrectly labeled as "Hard Nanoware Systems" when it should be "Soft ..." you can see this from the description listings (page 149 is the start of the Soft Nanoware Systems).

Now to answer the question, Mirikon already beat me to it while I was writing, but I think I add some extra detail:

In part, it is about game balance, buying the Nanohive is about being able to maintain the nanites "indefinitely" instead of them degrading over time. It isn't about being able to pay for a lower rating and get free upgrade.  Essentially, nanohives are about preventing and repairing nanite colony degredation, not building up something that wasn't there in the first place.

A simple explanation could be that buying a nanite colony at a higher rating doesn't just mean you bought more nanites. Sure that's probably part of it, but not all of it. I don't think they call it out in the rules, but I don't think you can manually replenish a nanite colony by just injecting yourself with more of the same type of nanites. Injecting a new set would probably function as an independent colony (congrats, you have 2 colonies of Rating 1 nanites). So part of buying the higher Rating is also paying for that particular colony's ability to function at that Rating.

Does that help bridge the logic?

Scrollreader

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« Reply #7 on: (11:58:38/12-13-17) »
Close enough for my purposes.  So there is a sort of limit to the nanites themselves.  I can call it a CFD countermeasure, or something and just live with it.  Sadly, it probably isn't worth it for chargen to have nanites.

legionof1

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« Reply #8 on: (16:57:12/12-13-17) »
most of the nanite stuff isn't that great at gen. The one exception i feel is control rig booster. + DP in addition to the control rig without exceeding avail 12 is decent, and not super expensive at 6k x rateing. The hive to keep them running is unfortunately 5 x rating availability and 12k x rating in cost.

So 18k total per +1 DP to a limit of +2(without exceeding avail 12.)

Mirikon

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« Reply #9 on: (06:31:11/12-16-17) »
Most nanoware and geneware are really for high-level games, honestly. They either cost a fuckton, or have availability ratings that put them out of reach of starter chars. However, they can be useful for higher-level characters who are flush with nuyen and need something to spend it on, as they give options for improvement that aren't tied to karma, since once you get past a certain point you're looking at four to six runs of karma to improve a dice pool by one point with karma, while weapons don't really change unless you start picking up laser rifles or such things, and the armor you can wear around the sprawl without drawing every HTR team to your location doesn't change, so the only thing you can improve is your ware.
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Scrollreader

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« Reply #10 on: (18:39:23/12-16-17) »
Yeah.  And that's totally fair.  I was just looking at a different way to build a Decker than 'spend almost all your money on a deck, buy +2 cerebral enhancer, and maybe a cyberarm if it is important to shoot things for your character/group'.  I don't mind that there are still things to buy later on, I was just hoping to do so in a different way/order than usual.  And I like the flavor of geneware and nanoware as something different and SOTA.

Mirikon

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« Reply #11 on: (12:26:27/12-17-17) »
Well, if you're doing a decker then you should absolutely spend most of your money on the deck and whatever programs you can grab, and then everything else is secondary. A good deck is easiest to get at chargen, unless you steal one, because those things really are hellaciously expensive.
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