Barehanded Adept

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« on: (15:38:27/08-08-17) »
Hey folks, just was typing this up to organize my thoughts on the various touch spells, gimme a heads up if I missed anything or we can start a constructive debate on this new quality.  Thanks.


S Tier (versatile,has good drain for an adept)

* Detox F-6:  Drugs are so good, of note:  Animal tongue is amazing for some runs when combined with some other touch spells.

A Tier (maybe as versatile as S tier, but either has bad drain or more narrow application)

* Mind Probe Core 287 F:  Gets you so much information, especially for social adepts this can be game breaking if not for the fact the drain code gets deadly.
* Awaken SG 109 F-3:  Gets people up, and has to have force equal to the stun wound modiifer.  Most people don't have -3 or more.  Better than most stim patches this way.

B Tier (Could be good in a variety of situations, and generally the drain code is fair by the results)

* Analyze Device SR 285 F-3:  Be skilled in just about anything or help others.
* Combat Sense F:  Good for just about anyone, but mainly, the help for surprise checks is nice.
* Detect (whatever), usually Life:  Good for the low force, and depending on your GM, good for seeing ambushes, though some GMs may rule "too much life" or similar around you.
* Clairvoyance/dueince/crypthesesia:  Pretty much all the same, great at what they do for detection.
* Physical Mask F-1:  Good disguises, may want extended masking too tho.

C Tier (Narrow in focus, but good at what it does for the drain)

* Catalog//Death Replay SG 104 F-3:  Good drain for investigation type adepts for objects/corpses.
* Death Touch SR 284 F-6 // Rupture F-6// Convert blood to ichor, et all  Touch spells with damage
* [Element] Grenade SSP 17 F-1:  Gets you grenade launcher ranges, throwing 'tests' with magic attribute (or arguably, unarmed as 'spellcasting') and can bounce off walls or corners.
* Borrow sense, eyes of the pack, et all:  Can be good for using animal tongue drug with detox combo to become a pseudo beast master adept.
* Translate:  good for what it does on the drain.
* Decrease [Attribute] F-2:  Almost to B tier, as this is your adept version of nerve strike for LOGIC on those soak tank trolls or similar.  Leave them a gibbering mess.
* Heal:  Yes, heals.
* Increase Reflexes F:  Buff times are sexy times, even with this drain or edge to blow it.
* Gecko Crawl:  Bit better than gloves.
* Blood whip FA 129 F-2:  Good drain code, and adepts can be close quarter monsters with this, too bad its a blood spell.
* Ram [Object] SG 105 F-5 :  Doors, and sometimes pants are handy.  But seriously, can be decent for not taking hardware.

D Tier (Hard to rate)

* Increase Attribute [any]:  Due to the force needing to equal the stat, maybe a good thing or a terrible thing for Barehanded adept.  Though arguably an apprentice health with man spirit maybe fine with any of these, but seems like a lot of hoops to just be a buff mage.
* Corrode [Object] SG 102 F-5:  Maybe good if mini welders weren't a thing.  Optionally, can be great when mini welders going to cut it for walls or doors due to how acid can lower armor each application.
* Diagnose SG 107:  Good drain, but maybe overshadowed by assensing, as well as narrow application for just injuries.  Probably not a great spell due to this.
* Ghoulish sstrength, vampiric speed, et all:  Most games won't allow you to be these things, if so, have fun!
* Incision:  Good for medical concepts.
* Increase Gear limits:  Edged, could be great for a cheap adept decker.
* Makeover:  Unfortunately, no mechanical benefit, but definitely easier to dress up.
* Mana Blade // Power Blade, maybe good for some home games for a jedi theme style. (may not be applicable due to range).

F Tier (narrow in focus, application, or bad drain code)

* One less metatype:  Hilarious, but ultimately very narrow.
* Mindlink/net:  Comms, micro transceivers, DNI, are all options before this unfortunately.
* Awaken // Alleviate addiction, allergy, nausea// Cure disease, et all:  all very specific ailments that have to be cured.  Might be better to just carry the mundane drug version or have it in an autoinjector for most of these.
* Decrease Inherent Limits:  If not for the objective resistance check, could be amazing.
* Healthy Glow:  This is usually a setup for other spells, while limits and heal checks are great, most adepts won't have the spell slots from just barehanded to be able to heal decently.
* Double Image SG 111:  I really wanna like this as a theme spell, but requires GM handwaving and has no mechanical aspect except to be 'doubled' to confuse things.
* Vehicle Mask// Switch Vehicle signature:  Obj resistance, boo.
* Alter ballistics:  takes too much karma to gain a dv or 2.
* Fix SG 116 F:  Obj resistance still.


Are there any of these touch spells that benefit from a good lodge of the same tradition for low force but high hits?
« Last Edit: (23:15:15/08-08-17) by Myriad »


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« Reply #1 on: (16:21:18/08-08-17) »
Frankly I would remove mana blade and power blade, from discussion until some kind of decent errata is developed.
They are giant loop hole in the current combat system, in effect they scales twice, and negates parry the primary defensive limiter on the melee system.


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« Reply #2 on: (16:52:16/08-08-17) »
What's the problem with mana blades besides the fact that hits on the cast don't do anything?
I don't even think they are particularly useful, and I'm not sure they qualify for barehanded adept, either.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.


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« Reply #3 on: (17:27:42/08-08-17) »
They don't actually qualify, they are range: special, not range: touch.

Also, analyze Device is very iffy as a spell. You take the -2 sustaining penalty for a maximum of M/3 extra dice to the roll. So unless have a sustaining foci you aren't gaining an advantage until Magic 9. Likewise a 2 damage grenade, before damage resistance, is of limited value.

I think a lot of your value will come from detection spells and a detection sustaining foci. There is a lot of value in being able to just cycle through a couple random detection spells at low force with virtually no investment.


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« Reply #4 on: (17:55:21/08-08-17) »
Sustaining penalties can be mitigated through Heightened Concern/Adept Centering
Reagents can boost the actual effect of the spells, but the list could use some revision nonetheless.

[Element] Grenade has much too low base damage to be of any use
Fix has to content with Object Resistance and is usable only once per target - it's pretty garbage even for a normal mage

Also, Gecko Crawl is actually better than Gecko Gloves since the spell allows you to climb without climbing tests when you are not faced with especially slick surfaces

A spell missing from the list is "Awaken": Can't be used on yourself but is excellent for getting others back into fighting shape. Most characters won't have more than 3 stun modifiers anyway, so the low force doesn't matter. This spell is particularly helpful to fight side effects from gasses that cause nausea
talk think matrix

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« Reply #5 on: (23:24:08/08-08-17) »
Cool, thanks for the suggestions, moved somethings around.

Hopefully there are some touch spells that work for hits, but think most are force limited.