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Alea Iacta Est (OOC)

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MDMann

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« Reply #345 on: <06-22-17/0323:05> »
Going to post treating Ite next. I haven't added anything for using the knife in the rolls above but I'll use it descriptively. It's the appropriate tool...

rednblack

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« Reply #346 on: <06-22-17/1303:29> »
Piloting: Drone Piloting: AGI (8) + Pilot (5) + Control Rig (2) + Combat Pilot (2) + VR (1) = 18 dice.: 18d6t5 4

Opposing roll: Environmental Opposed Roll: 12: 12d6t5 3

Takeoff looks good.  Let's see what kind of speeds Shiriki can get up to.
Drone Piloting: AGI (8) + Pilot (5) + Control Rig (2) + Combat Pilot (2) + VR (1) = 18 dice.: 18d6t5 7

Opposing roll: Environmental Opposed Roll: 12: 12d6t5 3
Damn son, that's how you pilot out of UCAS territory.

Last roll I'll make is a Perception test. 
Perception: LOG (7) + WIL (6) + Control Rig (2) = 15 dice: 15d6t5 7
Shiriki sees all.  I guess I should be narrating what Shiriki sees, but GM told us to only narrate for the next 30 seconds, and I'm fine with letting the scene end and moving on toward Karma and the next chapter.  I'll leave what Shiriki sees to the GM, but hope that any incoming aircraft or materialized Spirits will be seen in time for Shiriki to react and respond accordingly.
« Last Edit: <06-22-17/1314:08> by rednblack »
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Jayde Moon

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« Reply #347 on: <06-22-17/2047:56> »
Why is Chante frozen rigid by a spurt of blood?  ???  Well, it's your narrative :P
That's just like... your opinion, man.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #348 on: <06-23-17/0045:55> »
Action is to me. I'll be posting an IC to wrap up the chapter.

Next Steps
1) Karma. I'll PM you your karma awards. You can spend it or save it. Let me know what you plan on spending it on. I don't think I'm going to say no to something unless it's completely far-fetched, like someone suddenly Emerging. I just want to know what's changing and which direction your character is developing in. The change will happen instantaneously with no in-game justification needed. You'll learn your new spell or grow your new bioware just like that. This can be done via PM or via the OOC thread, whatever you prefer.

2) This is the end of Chapter 1. Now's the time for us to stop and collectively assess how we're feeling with the game. In my head, this was Chapter 1 of 3. I'm willing to continue but if anyone wants to bow out, either because the game isn't what you thought it would be or life is leading you away, then there will be no hard feelings and you'll still be welcome in any of my future games.

We spent 99 days on Chapter 1, although two weeks of that was the site being hacked. So, adjusting a bit, that means that Chapter 1 lasted 12 weeks. The subsequent chapters would be approximately the same length, although they could take longer because they are less linear than Chapter 1.

3) It's also time to figure out what is and isn't working about the game, which mostly will come down to what is and isn't working about Anarchy. You are under no obligation to agree with any of this; please speak freely.

The Good
+ I'm very happy with the quality of IC posts and how regular everyone has been about posting, both OOCly and ICly. You guys are doing great.
+ As a GM, I'm only IC posting twice per IC page. The fact that only 1 out of 7 posts are mine is really strong testimony both the player agency that Anarchy provides but also this group's willingness to move the narrative forward. I'm extremely happy about this.
+ I really like how Anarchy simplifies skills.
+ I also like the high-level approach to modifiers. This makes calculating pools and rolling dice so, so much faster than SR5. In SR5 I would dread adjudicating 10+ NPCs, not just for the modifiers uniquely applicable to each combatant but also for calculating the action economy (Free/Simple/Complex) for each and every one of them. This really helps keeps the action moving while still getting me to bed at a reasonable hour.
+ I like how you don't have to roll Initiative after every combat round. That saved us many, many days of not having to pause and roll every time we got to the bottom of the order.
+ I think keeping the "table" open in Talk Time has worked well, rather than going in a stricter order for non-combat Narratives.

The Less Good
- We're not using Plot Points to their full potential. I like how we have used them, but as a team you still have 14 left. I don't know if that's standard gamer hoarding - which I do myself in every computer game - or if people just don't think about them, or feel that they're necessary.
- As we've mentioned before, I'm not thrilled with Armor acting as additional hit points. Not only is it unrealistic, it also slows down gameplay because each and every armored goon is going to need 3+ attacks to chew up their armor and then their damage track. Even if we subtract out the two weeks that the site was down, and then another day for it being down this week, the most recent fight still took 31 days. My hope would be to resolve an action like this in two weeks or less. This is in no way a criticism of the players but rather of the system, most of which I'm attributing to Armor. As such, I'm open to thoughts or ideas about how to adjust Armor and/or AP. I'm not totally opposed to going back to an SR5 soak roll (Strength + Armor) but nor is it my first choice since it will involve more rolling.

That's it for now. I'll probably think of more as I sleep on it overnight. Please contribute your thoughts on the game and the rules while pondering how you want to spend your karma.

MDMann

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« Reply #349 on: <06-23-17/0302:21> »
Surprise. It's a powerful stream under pressure from about two inches away into her face. It's hardly the worst she's seen (no doubt) but it's a bit of a shock.

For the armour, perhaps a dice pool modifier to add to defence or dodge? Gut says two dice for the moots we faced, three for us. Where it's important to determine between dodging and armour absorption, you can see where the hits are on orokos.com so armour counts on the last ones if needed. This gives the option to downgrade the armour as it's struck.  Downside, doing it properly (working out the mods) before combat might be more GM work. It should speed things up overall though. What do you think? Run a combat and test it?

Jayde Moon

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« Reply #350 on: <06-23-17/1438:03> »
The good is the good.  I liked that we never really had to pause for any length of time.

As for plot points, I tried to use a few to get that Exploit die out... but using them to add additional challenges to the scene can get a little hokey, fast.  Like every time you turn a corner there's a sudden burst of fresh enemies!

Of course, we have to be far more creative with their use.  If a plot point has a group of enemies suddenly turn a corner, another plot point could be used to say that security protocols cause a blast door between you and them to close...

I think this is just a sort of 'getting used to the system'

As for Armor, I dunno... having it the way it is makes it  so there's less dice rolling overall.  Once damage occurs, it is applied, so that's one less die roll.  Having a soak roll to make things go faster can backfire, if someone has good enough armor and rolls to start negating damage enough... guys drop in two hits rather than 1, but with soak, it could end up taking 3-4 hits.  Especially on Spirits.
That's just like... your opinion, man.

GloriousRuse

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« Reply #351 on: <06-24-17/1155:07> »
General Impressions:

Anarchy seems to mostl work well with PbP in of that it encourages longer, fuller posts and scene advancement per "move", avoiding the fatal slowness of many PbP games. We've seen that.

I think that as a group we are just beginning to appreciate the fact that we are also mini-gms, and have narrative control. As that increases, we should start to see an even leaner form of PbP in terms of useful:filler posts.

Re: plot points. So there's basically two times you can use plot points, in the narrative or in combat. In combat, if the GM is playing "fair for a GM", having, essentially, six extra edge per player seems anti-dramatic. Which may be just the thing for a John Woo style game, but less so here. The other major use is basically seizing control of the narrative. I get the sense that is a more important role in real time and once you begin to narrate more than your own character. We won't ever go real time and therefore pro ably won't use plot points for interrupting and refocusing - however I do think we may see more "beyond the character" narrations and therefore plot points used, in the future.

Combat: Is the weak point. It very rapidly degenerates into a long, slow, dice off with little room for flair beyond the descriptive. Armor is partly to blame, as is I think the player desire not to have their "cool maneveur" automatically work every time and hence a reluctance to use them. To be honest this may be a PbP fault more than an Anarchy - I like the simpler action sequence, and other than mega armor it should be faster

. I recommend we put together a few examples of things beyond "I roll my attack dice" that would be considered within reasonable player control and yet would alter the situation. Things you would do naturally in a 5E game if you weren't stairs you were deus ex-ing the world in your favor.

Armor rules heavily favor NPCs. Since PCs will presumably go through multiple engagements before "topping off" again, every armor hit point lost is a permanent loss while the NPCs start with 1.5 or more "hits" extra than normal. Which would be in keeping with every game ever, except for the fact the now 3 attack minimum NPCs will all get a chance to wade in. The net effect is that combat starts feeling very D&D grind out the HP while conserving your own, and less Shadowrun "and six seconds later, everyone in the room was having a very bad day".

MDMann

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« Reply #352 on: <06-26-17/0731:07> »
Since the chapter is over, is it worth opening up recruitment to replace Ite?

Tecumseh

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« Reply #353 on: <06-26-17/1248:19> »
I was originally thinking of this as a 3-4 player + 1 GM game, but was willing to expand it to 5 due to the expressed interest. Now that we're back down to 4 we're still where I thought we should be in terms of player count.

If we opt to continue into Chapter 2 then you'll see that recruiting/replacement doesn't make much sense in the storyline. Odds are good that Shiriki will inherit Ité's cyberdeck and programs. The skill drop-off is not significant. Ité has better Hacking and Electronics but Shiriki's better Logic makes up for all but 1 of the dice. You'll be missing another warm body to throw things at people, but I'll just adjust the opposition accordingly.

I'm still waiting for rednblack's buy-in on Chapter 2, and any thoughts or tweaks he would like to make to Anarchy.

I thought a lot about the armor issue over the weekend. I can come up with some interesting approaches but none of them are the perfect balance between realism, game play, and minimizing rolling. I might write some of them up later this afternoon or evening to see what the group thinks.

GloriousRuse

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« Reply #354 on: <06-26-17/1401:36> »
I may also suggest that we have a small communal map maintained for combat related things. It does not have to be to scale, or anything that would make this a war game, but as a helpful visual aid and as something to give players some tactical options.

Side note of nerding: not having a map created some very kriegspiel moments this time through. While an excellent example of how even super simple reports quickly become a confused blur, I think we're willing to sacrifice that in return for fidelity of action

Tecumseh

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« Reply #355 on: <06-27-17/0112:14> »
Some armor ideas. The math will assume 12 dice to attack, 6 dice to dodge, and a base damage of 8P when you are attacking. That leaves an average of 2 net hits to stage the damage up to 10P.

When you are being attacked, the math will assume that you have 12 to dodge (although you range between 10 and 15) and that the attack connects with no net hits.

Method 1 - Roll soak
Idea: The SR4-5 method. Roll Strength + Armor.
Example: You guys would roll 16-18 dice so let's say you average 6 hits. Against an 8P attack that would leave you with 2 boxes of damage. On attacks you initiate, the average damage will be 4 boxes, so most enemies would go down with three hits.
Pros: Established, reasonably balanced. One-shots potentially possible due to bad soak rolling.
Cons: Much more rolling that the GM would rather not do.

Method 2 - Armor auto-soaks
Idea: Armor soaks hits at a 3:1 ratio with no rolling. Armor rating 12 is now effectively Armor 4. Optional: armor degrades 1 point after each Physical (not Stun) attack until repaired.
Example: Armor 12 would now soak 4 hits the first attack, 3 hits the second attack, 2 hits the third attack, then 1 hit the last attack. Your 8P+2 net hit attack would do 6 boxes the first time, then 7 boxes the second time. On the receiving end, you would take 4 boxes the first attack, 5 boxes the second attack, 6 boxes the third attack. Enemies go down on the second hit on average. Players would go down on the third hit.
Pros: Maintains the idea of armor degrading. Motivation to spend plot points on armor repair. No additional rolling required. Similar to the SR1-3 approach.
Cons: No opportunity to one-shot an opponent. Stacked auto-soaking could lead someone to be impervious (see Chrome Bison, p. 91, who would auto-soak 9 boxes per attack).

Method 3 - All attacks assumed to have Armor Avoidance
Idea: Base damage goes to armor, net hits go directly to damage track.
Example: On average, the players would not be affected by this. On the attack, 2 boxes would go to the enemy's damage monitor while the rest went to their armor.
Pros: Established precedent. Getting wounds on the damage track will lead to negative modifiers sooner, which could then help end battles faster. The least invasive/radical change.
Cons: Invalidates the AA benefits of attacks that currently have it. One-shots are still impossible. Preserves some of the unrealistic ways that armor would degrade after meaningless attacks. (Twelve punches from Granny still wipe out your milspec suit.)

Method 4 - Armor adds to your dodge pool at a 3:1 ratio
Idea: I believe this is what MDMann was suggesting. You roll dodge + 4 dice for your milspec armor. Armor no longer soaks.
Example:  That would be enough to break the tie between attack/dodge so that most attacks wouldn't hit the players. On the flip side, the players would be connecting with 1 net hit instead of 2.
Pros: No additional rolling. If armor doesn't soak anymore, then most player attacks will do 9 boxes of damage and knock the grunt out of the fight.
Cons: No soak also means that players would be KO'd after just 1-2 attacks, making dodging all but mandatory. That removes any gradation between "uninjured" and "almost dead".

Method 5 - Compare net hits on the attack vs. dodge and armor separately (but simultaneously)
Idea: Roll dodge and armor at the same time in Orokos. If attack > dodge+armor, then armor doesn't soak. If attack > dodge but attack < dodge+armor then armor soaks. If attack < dodge then attack misses.
Example:  The players would have 2 net hits but Armor 12 would roll 4. That means the attack would go to the armor more often than not. Same for the reverse situation.
Pros: Potential for one-shots vs. bad dodge/armor rolls. Realistic that most attacks would hit full body armor.
Cons: More rolling, although the additional syntax is modest since the rolls can be done simultaneously. Much more mental math to figure out where the attack connects. On average, most attacks will hit armor, so this is no faster than the current system.

Those are some of the mechanical concepts. I am aware that, as GM, I can also just give goons less armor, or have them give up sooner and not fight to the bitter end. I would say that I am doing my best to be realistic about these considerations.

That's a pretty good summary of what was rolling around my head over the weekend. The floor is open for feedback.
« Last Edit: <06-27-17/0114:38> by Tecumseh »

MDMann

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« Reply #356 on: <06-27-17/0213:13> »
Method 4 is what I was suggesting but with a soak roll. So say you take 3 hits before dodging and roll 4 hits to dodge. Since you can see the order of the dice rolled in orokos.com you can degrade the armour. If that was 2 hits at the front of your dodge roll and 2 at the end there would be 2 hits dodged and 1 caught by the armour which is then degraded 1 so you roll less dice at the next defence. The extra hit is ignored. Pro is it allows armour to degrade now and a bad roll could add a one hit kill. Con is extra book-keeping. Same as method 4.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #357 on: <07-09-17/0035:47> »
Forums are back, at least for the moment. Please check in when you see this.

We lost our Chapter Two posts.

I'm seriously contemplating moving the game over to a more stable site, like RPoL.net. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has a strong preference.

GloriousRuse

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« Reply #358 on: <07-10-17/2059:34> »
I don't have a specific preference, and would agree that site transfer might be better overall.


rednblack

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« Reply #359 on: <07-10-17/2210:46> »
Checking in.

I've been impressed with rpol. I don't like their lack of search functionality, but the fact that it's almost always up is a big plus. I'd be fine with moving there.
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