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[SR5] Forbidden Arcana

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #90 on: <05-11-17/0055:07> »
Just got the book and I'm really happy to see mentions of stuff that harkens back to second edition. I would've liked to hear more than that single post from Red's mysterious friend Silk, though. All that build up from Red and all she did was "regurgitate" the blood mage bounty info? Hopefully we see more of her.

Kevin kicked all kinds of tush on the Blood Magic thing. He deserved to get the spot over me. My whole hook was, "The Draco Foundation for Blood Mages has always been to bring them in alive? We've wondered about that for forever ... and now, I'm here to tell you." His work was way better than what I had, tho, and I was thrilled to get the Wild stuff instead.

And, yeah, spelunking through old books allowed us to bring LOTS of old stuff back that's been missing as well as set a few things up for the future. Some concepts are for future generations of writers to run with, some are for us, and some are, "95% of the fanbase won't need this, but 5% just went, "Holy drek!" Obviously, it'd be cheating to tell you which is which, but, as an example, I primed the Elijah stuff back in Storm Front. Some of these things take a few years to develop.

More on that later. :D

Wakshaani

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« Reply #91 on: <05-11-17/0105:34> »
A pretty solid book, great work guys! Some top notch fiction, a much needed expansion on alchemy, and the mastery qualities are some pretty great ways to make your magicians more specialized. The only major shortfall IMO is failure to address the lack of non-corporate early life modules for magicians and LMs for other adept types in general.

The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.

Life modules tho... hrm. Not worked with them yet, personally. I need to look into those more. Need to see what the demand level is for that and what kinds of holes people want filled. Good heads-up!

Beyond that? Hope you enjoy it! It was a lot of fun to work on. Woo!

Nightmare

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« Reply #92 on: <05-11-17/1246:58> »
Just got the book and I'm really happy to see mentions of stuff that harkens back to second edition. I would've liked to hear more than that single post from Red's mysterious friend Silk, though. All that build up from Red and all she did was "regurgitate" the blood mage bounty info? Hopefully we see more of her.
Obviously, it'd be cheating to tell you which is which, but, as an example, I primed the Elijah stuff back in Storm Front. Some of these things take a few years to develop.

More on that later. :D

I remember that priming, both Elijah and Winterhawk were interested in seeing what effect the war had on the forvae, esp seeing as there had been an increase in them. Guess we now kind of know.  It makes sense seeing as Mr. Dark was rumored to be an Aztechnology employee and such. I'm with Bull, though,...MORE BRIDGES!!!!   :o

Marzhin

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« Reply #93 on: <05-11-17/1517:36> »
Also, Elijah had a taste of the Fourth World -- maybe? -- in the novel Fire & Frost.
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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #94 on: <05-11-17/1713:26> »
Finally got around to the fluff in the beginning of the book, and... it's actually darn good.
The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.
Hey, when you're at that, now that we have MyAds without Enchanting, how about an Adept variation with it? You have that neat mastery quality with more maximum foci now, and that'd go well with "Hot Qi". ^^
A "Focus Focus"!  ;D
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

TonyK

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« Reply #95 on: <05-11-17/1925:42> »
Hey, when you're at that, now that we have MyAds without Enchanting, how about an Adept variation with it? You have that neat mastery quality with more maximum foci now, and that'd go well with "Hot Qi". ^^
A "Focus Focus"!  ;D
"Hot Qi" - worst Awakened pick up line ever. :)
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #96 on: <05-12-17/0658:44> »
Finally got a chance to look at the book myself to see what everyone is talking about...

Wakshaani, do you know if that chart on page 47 for the various Aspected Awakened Abilities is actually meant to be a change for Mystic Adepts? There isn't any other mention of changes to the way Mystic Adepts function anywhere else in the book (in fact there is nearly no mention of Mystic Adepts specifically in the book).

That chart seems to imply that Mystic Adepts automatically have access to Astral Perception (as it specifically calls out Physical Adepts as needing to take the Power, but doesn't use the same notation for Mystic Adepts). And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that. It also doesn't make any note about how Mystic Adepts have restricted access to adept powers (they have to purchase their power points separately and don't gain more as Magic increases unlike Physical Adepts).

All-in-all, that chart seems like it should have just left off the first three lines, Full Magician, Mystic Adept, and Adept aren't "Aspected Awakened" and don't seem to be altered by what the book is talking about in relation to that chart.

Also, the preface of: "Three of these 'lost' aspects follow" is sort of lacking when one of those three is just an optional rule to allow Aspected Enchanters to essentially get a free Priority Upgrade (the effects of Priority B at the lower Priority C). They didn't even give it  a new name or otherwise alter it in any way. It is literally saying "we all know about Aspected Sorcerers, Conjurers, and Enchanters, but I bet you didn't know about the Apprentices, Enchanters, and Explorers, plus the minor sparks of Aware"  If you're going to make a 'more powerful' (read: available at lower priority) aspected enchanter, call it an Artificer or something and make it so that they can't use Alchemy to make spell preparations. At least then they would be in line with the Explorers, no access to immediate offensive magic, but have access to a high Magic Rating at a low priority.

odd

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« Reply #97 on: <05-12-17/0944:58> »
A pretty solid book, great work guys! Some top notch fiction, a much needed expansion on alchemy, and the mastery qualities are some pretty great ways to make your magicians more specialized. The only major shortfall IMO is failure to address the lack of non-corporate early life modules for magicians and LMs for other adept types in general.

The spec didn't call for new Adept stuff, but judging from the feedback, that was an error. Hopefully, we can make up for that with a PDF in the future. I'm already prepping ideas to try and convince the upstairs on the idea, but that'll take a while.

Life modules tho... hrm. Not worked with them yet, personally. I need to look into those more. Need to see what the demand level is for that and what kinds of holes people want filled. Good heads-up!

Beyond that? Hope you enjoy it! It was a lot of fun to work on. Woo!

Maybe you can try and gather other things people say were missed in various books and make a hefty one (instead of a tiny one).  Maybe have a name hinting at misfits, or forgotten/lost?

UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #98 on: <05-12-17/1505:38> »
I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.

And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that.
I seem to remember a statement somewhere, maybe reddit, saying that this was actually on purpose, as MyAds are kind of just better than mages, or something like that. Not informed on the Perception thingy, I have my doubts there.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Sendaz

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« Reply #99 on: <05-12-17/1635:37> »
I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.
Knockout, Stunbolt, Stunball are often referred to as 'sleep' spells since they can render targets unconscious (doing just S damage) but keep them alive. 
Remember just because the spell has a certain name in the books, doesn't mean everyone calls it the same thing.
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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #100 on: <05-12-17/1705:24> »
Yes, I've read that. But we don't have an actual sleep spell. That... strikes me as an oversight, honestly; There's an entire family of mid control ones, but nothing to reliably tell someone he's really tired. Well, suggestion, but when they lay down they'll find they aren't. ^^
I suppose it's not much to do with FA, just thought this could have been the place to put one. ^^
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Sendaz

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« Reply #101 on: <05-12-17/1803:23> »
I see it less of an oversight and more just how the game mechanics were laid out.

You see the same thing in Narcojet..  it knocks you out via overwhelming stun damage.

I would allow a MC spell to effectively put someone to sleep, but then it has to be sustained, and I suspect you are looking for more of a 'Fire & Forget' type of spell which SR really doesn't use outside of affecting damage tracks-whether physical or stun type.

You could maybe adapt the toxin rules to include a sleep effect (alternate to paralysis) and then lift that to the spell category.
So a possible Sleep spell may look like this:

Sleep
Manipulation (Mental)
Type: M                Range: LOS
Duration: I (Special)  Drain: F – 1
Speed: Immediate
Penetration: N/A
Power: Force 
Effect: Unconsciousness

Mists of Morpheus
Manipulation (Mental)
Type: M                Range: LOS (A)
Duration: I (Special)  Drain: F +2
Speed: Immediate
Penetration: N/A
Power: Force 
Effect: Unconsciousness

When hit by the Sleep spell the target rolls Body + Willpower + any counterspelling/spell defense(if applicable);
each hit reduces the spell's Power by 1 point.
If the Power is reduced to zero, the spell has no effect;
Otherwise, the target falls unconscious for 1 minute per Power of spell after resistance test.
Note: The spell is not sustained, but rather the duration of sleep is how long it takes for the body to shake off the initial effects on it's own.
Unconscious creatures are prone, unaware and helpless. Slapping or wounding awakens an affected creature, but normal noise does not.
Takes 1 Complex action to awaken a sleeping party, usually by shaking or repeatedly slapping said victim.
Woken up victims will be drowsy and befuddled, so will need 1 CT to shake off the last of it's effects and still can not act. 
The following Combat Turn the victim can now act, but will still suffer a -2 to all actions, after which they can act normally.

Note: Considered allowing Power to be Force + hits on the original spellcasting, but early testing makes me believe it would probably be too OP since you get the full KO effect if it even has 1 Power left after resisting.

Drain is 2 pts higher than equivalent combat spells, but figured it's a fair tradeoff for the effect and to still keep the Stun family spells a viable alternative.
« Last Edit: <05-12-17/2016:59> by Sendaz »
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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #102 on: <05-12-17/2046:05> »
And it doesn't mark Mystic Adepts as having access to Enchanting, even though there is no real reason to remove that.
I seem to remember a statement somewhere, maybe reddit, saying that this was actually on purpose, as MyAds are kind of just better than mages, or something like that. Not informed on the Perception thingy, I have my doubts there.
By the Core Rulebook, the trade-off between being a Mystic Adept and being a Full Magician is the fact that Mystic Adepts gain access to Adept Powers (5 karma per power point), but they cannot Astrally Project and must pay for Astral Perception (+5 karma and takes up one of their Adept Power Points).

The biggest problem I have with this chart pseudo-errata-change-monstrosity is the fact that it isn't explained, mentioned, or verified anywhere else. There hasn't been any sort of announcement or actual errata listing telling us that there is any actual change to Mystic Adepts.
The next biggest problem is that removing Enchanting from Mystic Adepts at this stage is like telling someone they aren't allowed to wear a hat. It likely won't affect a majority of people (meaning the "nerf" has no effect), might be a minor annoyance to some, and yet other characters are having an integral part of their build drastically altered (sorry balding people, no covering that up). I actually know of several characters that are Mystic Adepts that utilize Enchanting as part of their concept, biggest of which is a friend whose character is basically a Mystic Blacksmith, researching, creating, and enchanting foci from scratch is kind of his thing.


I read a passage on mundanes describing magic they've seen, including one saying that everyone was hit by a sleep spell, and such was also mentioned by lyran, and it occured to me that, as far as I could find, SR5 doesn't actually have an actual sleep spell.
Besides not being entirely sure, I figured this isn't errata as it was in the fluff section.

It's an interesting idea, although conceptually, it could potentially be duplicated by simply using Control Actions to "Sleep" the target.

As far as your posted spells are concerned, are they Mental Manipulations or Physically creating a Toxin? Nothing in your description seems to be treating these as actual Mental Manipulation, they seem to be acting as an actual Toxin. In which case, I would call them Manipulation [Environmental], change the Type to P. Otherwise, Mental Manipulations are usually Sustained (and are "shaken off" through the progressive resistance effect of Mental Manipulations.

Sendaz

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« Reply #103 on: <05-12-17/2118:39> »

As far as your posted spells are concerned, are they Mental Manipulations or Physically creating a Toxin? Nothing in your description seems to be treating these as actual Mental Manipulation, they seem to be acting as an actual Toxin. In which case, I would call them Manipulation [Environmental], change the Type to P. Otherwise, Mental Manipulations are usually Sustained (and are "shaken off" through the progressive resistance effect of Mental Manipulations.
It falls in that gray area, because what we want is a mental spell to basically KO someone rather than going through the usual 'Stun them until they are out cold' way that you would via the Stunbolt/Stunball spells.
Had not intended to fully go with creating a toxin in the body, though it could be treated as such, but found the toxin rules a good way to simulate the desired effect.
I would still argue it should be M rather than P, though the Environmental tag is probably better used, but then that means no single target spell version.

But again it was just trying to find an alternative way to do what Unlimited was looking for to recreate the sleep spell for the SR setting.
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Beta

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« Reply #104 on: <05-12-17/2301:52> »
I'm pretty sure that in 1st/2nd editions, "sleep" was just a fairly hefty AOE stun spell .  IIRC it was base damage 'serious' (6 boxes), so would just need some extra successes to stage up to 'deadly ' and a full ten boxes.
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