NEWS

Adept spell and foci/fetishes

  • 23 Replies
  • 1712 Views

忍

  • *
  • Guest
« on: <02-28-17/1333:39> »
Is it possible for an adept to get a foci or fetish to use with adept spell?

Jack_Spade

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6515
« Reply #1 on: <02-28-17/1341:42> »
Yes, and technically it's a loophole for an adept to exchange spells.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Tecumseh

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3861
« Reply #2 on: <02-28-17/1504:35> »
Jack, I haven't heard of this. What's the loophole?

Jack_Spade

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6515
« Reply #3 on: <02-28-17/1518:31> »
Adept spell says you can learn only one spell, but if you get them as foci you can exchange them
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

The Bald Man

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 191
« Reply #4 on: <02-28-17/1609:21> »
It's not really exchanging spells, its buying additional foci, when are then bound with Karma.
Unless I'm missing something there isn't a way to exchange.

Side note - what book is Adept spell in?

Jack_Spade

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6515
« Reply #5 on: <02-28-17/1621:05> »
It's in Hard Targets p.190

You don't have to have all foci active at the same time, so you can choose which spell you can use. Even if your GM rules that this is not possible, you can have a focus unbound, followed by binding an other focus.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1471
« Reply #6 on: <02-28-17/1705:58> »
It doesn't seem overly broken to me. Using Qi Foci to "house" Adept Spell would require spending at least 8 karma and 12,000¥ for each spell.

Add to that, the action economy cost (taking the time to deactivate one focus, before reactivating the other one), the resource cost (there is a hard limit on  both the number of Foci you can Bind [Magic Rating] as well as the total Force of all Foci bound), risk of addiction (if you have too many other Foci active), as well as the risk of Background interference (if the Focus' Force drops below 4, it can no longer run the power).

Those all seem like reasonable balances to this "workaround."


As for the OP, I believe they were actually asking if an Adept could bind and use Spell Foci to use in conjunction with the Adept Spell power. The answer to this is "Yes," there isn't anything in the rules that actually prevents an Adept from bonding a Spell Focus even without the Adept Spell power. It just isn't going to do anything for them without it.

Technically, a non-adept could likewise bond a Qi Focus (there isn't anything in the RAW that says they can't), but I know that I would rule that they wouldn't get the adept powers stored within unless they have the ability to have adept powers in the first place. Sorry, no Magicians picking up Qi Foci to become pseudo-Mystic Adepts in my games.

Quatar

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 409
« Reply #7 on: <03-03-17/0556:19> »
Well, by default an Adept cannot learn the Spellcasting skill, which is required to use the Adept Spell. Taking Adept Spell allows you to learn Spellcasting.

Now, a GM could very well rule, that taking it with a Qi Focus does not allow you to learn the skill, and therefor it wouldn't work.

Kiirnodel

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 1471
« Reply #8 on: <03-03-17/0631:08> »
True, a GM could rule that way. But there is a pretty decent argument that, since the Qi Focus grants the power as long as it is active, the Adept could learn the Spellcasting skill while the focus is active.

Jack_Spade

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6515
« Reply #9 on: <03-03-17/0634:37> »
Specific trumps general.
 No one can stop the GM being a dick, but having the power, no matter the source, allows the adept to learn spellcasting
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Wu Jen

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • The only true paradises are those that are lost.
« Reply #10 on: <05-23-20/1554:33> »
Sorry to Necro but this seems unbalanced.

Qi focus Rating 4 - Adept Spell: Increased Reflex's,  Y 12,000 Nuyen 8 Karma to bond.
Spell Sustaining focus, health spells Rating 1  Y 4,000 Nuyen 2 Karma to bond.

Cast Increased reflexes at Force 1, use 8 reagents to set the limit at 8, which will give you +8 initiative +4d6 initiative dice.

So for Y 16,000 Nuyen upfront cost and 10 Karma, you now have something better than spending 3.5 Power points.

You go through a barrier or spell goes away then just spend Y 160 to recast it.

Seems broken to me.

adzling

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3251
« Reply #11 on: <05-24-20/0945:52> »
think you already got your answer on this one on reddit.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3554
« Reply #12 on: <05-24-20/1024:39> »
Sorry to Necro but this seems unbalanced.

Qi focus Rating 4 - Adept Spell: Increased Reflex's,  Y 12,000 Nuyen 8 Karma to bond.
Spell Sustaining focus, health spells Rating 1  Y 4,000 Nuyen 2 Karma to bond.

Cast Increased reflexes at Force 1, use 8 reagents to set the limit at 8, which will give you +8 initiative +4d6 initiative dice.

So for Y 16,000 Nuyen upfront cost and 10 Karma, you now have something better than spending 3.5 Power points.

You go through a barrier or spell goes away then just spend Y 160 to recast it.

Seems broken to me.

Well, the R4 Qi Focus works in a rating 3 Background Count.  The R1 Spell Sustaining focus turns off in any Background Count whatsoever, since BGC's cant be lower than rating 1....

And going by the guidelines in SG... simply killing a person can cause a background count.  Kind of suck to turn off your own Increase Reflexes because you shot someone...
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9386
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #13 on: <05-24-20/1151:08> »
A Rating 4 Qi Focus may still work in a BGC 3, but its Force is reduced, which means it no longer grants its power.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Shinobi Killfist

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2443
« Reply #14 on: <05-24-20/1303:34> »
Sorry to Necro but this seems unbalanced.

Qi focus Rating 4 - Adept Spell: Increased Reflex's,  Y 12,000 Nuyen 8 Karma to bond.
Spell Sustaining focus, health spells Rating 1  Y 4,000 Nuyen 2 Karma to bond.

Cast Increased reflexes at Force 1, use 8 reagents to set the limit at 8, which will give you +8 initiative +4d6 initiative dice.

So for Y 16,000 Nuyen upfront cost and 10 Karma, you now have something better than spending 3.5 Power points.

You go through a barrier or spell goes away then just spend Y 160 to recast it.

Seems broken to me.

Well, the R4 Qi Focus works in a rating 3 Background Count.  The R1 Spell Sustaining focus turns off in any Background Count whatsoever, since BGC's cant be lower than rating 1....

And going by the guidelines in SG... simply killing a person can cause a background count.  Kind of suck to turn off your own Increase Reflexes because you shot someone...

Has any GM interpreted background count that way?  Unrelated as this isn't a 6r thread but, Does 6e even have it yet, I forget.  If not its something that needs such a huge rewrite from top to bottom I hope they don't even look at previous editions for it other than the basic thematic element some places its harder to do magic.