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Errata for the Spell Analyze Device?

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inca1980

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« Reply #15 on: <09-13-10/0432:08> »
Ya, and in that case a GM has full right to have the spirit decide it doesn't want to go home once it's done with it's services......if you're going to summon such powerful game-breaking entities into the campaign world, then you better be ready to pay the consequences. 

Juxtamon

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« Reply #16 on: <09-14-10/1206:24> »
Oich...Force 16 spirit?  The thing is, it's not getting it to cast the spell for you that would be the problem.

It would be BINDING it to get it to do so.  Resist hits x2 of 32 dice of overcast binding drain, *after* resisting hits x2 of 16 dice overcast summoning drain?  How, exactly, is that likely?  How much Edge do you have to burn, here?  For one Analyze Device spell?

 If the shaman is slinging all this around, why does s/he need Analyze Device?
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #17 on: <09-14-10/1212:19> »
It's not just shaman that can do this, it is any caster specialized in summoning.

And so long as the summoning drain doesn't actually kill him, the summoner is just fine.  Even using automatic dice for creating or resisting drain yields, for the summoner player in my group, yields only 8 drain, of which 4 is resisted by the summoner (using edge but ignoring bonus 6's).  Not that difficult.  Binding is expensive, but not prohibitively.

One summons the spirit to do this so that the caster has someone else taking the sustaining penalty, and it doesn't cost any karma, unlike a sustaining focus.  Not to mention the other abilities of the spirit.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Juxtamon

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« Reply #18 on: <09-14-10/1237:46> »
It's not just shaman that can do this, it is any caster specialized in summoning.

And so long as the summoning drain doesn't actually kill him, the summoner is just fine.  Even using automatic dice for creating or resisting drain yields, for the summoner player in my group, yields only 8 drain, of which 4 is resisted by the summoner (using edge but ignoring bonus 6's).  Not that difficult.  Binding is expensive, but not prohibitively.

One summons the spirit to do this so that the caster has someone else taking the sustaining penalty, and it doesn't cost any karma, unlike a sustaining focus.  Not to mention the other abilities of the spirit.

For a Force 16?  The binding would yield 16 drain, using the auto hits, since the spirit resists with its Force x 2, and drain is twice those successes. Your guys have a lotta juice, my friend. 
"Was it in Tahiti?  Were we on the Nile?"

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #19 on: <09-14-10/1453:16> »
Ah, sorry, I didn't clarify.  The summoner in my group typically spits out force 8's or 9's.  He has cranked out 12 before, but only in emergencies.  And he usually is lucky enough, especially with edge use, to suffer minimal or no drain.  I think the worst drain he suffered was with the force 12, and then it was only 2 or 3 drain.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Juxtamon

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« Reply #20 on: <09-14-10/1525:50> »
Ah, sorry, I didn't clarify.  The summoner in my group typically spits out force 8's or 9's.  He has cranked out 12 before, but only in emergencies.  And he usually is lucky enough, especially with edge use, to suffer minimal or no drain.  I think the worst drain he suffered was with the force 12, and then it was only 2 or 3 drain.

Phew!  No problem, T_G_N.  Had some scare-pants on for a sec. 

...heeeeey.  Maybe THAT's where all my good die-rolls are going!  Somebody's aceing all their drain with 'em!
"Was it in Tahiti?  Were we on the Nile?"

voydangel

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« Reply #21 on: <09-15-10/2324:44> »
@Nut: I'm assuming this is a rather advanced character? No character near starting could pull off that kind of stuff... or am I missing something?
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Doc Chaos

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« Reply #22 on: <09-16-10/0037:47> »
Force 8 spirits aren't that hard to come by. 8 dice usually translates to 2 or 3 successes and 4 or 6 points of drain are something you can reduce to "not so bad" levels even with a starting character. Might take 1 or 2 drain, but you get a pretty kickass powerful spirit in return. Sure it depends on the situation, but if the situation calls for a force 8 spirit, chances are pretty good you can get one without knocking yourself out/into a coma.
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voydangel

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« Reply #23 on: <09-16-10/0144:30> »
Yea, I guess that's true. Never really thought about it in numeric terms, but I suppose you could get a starting character to roll 12ish dice on a summoning test without too much labor. I think perhaps my brain was getting mixed up with binding, which is the opposed roll vs the spirits force x2, in which case rolling your 12ish vs 16 could become problematic. But after a quick refresher I guess F8 spirits are actually fairly easy to muster, even for a green runner.
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

Juxtamon

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« Reply #24 on: <09-16-10/1343:11> »
Easyish to call, if a little painful.  Having an already-possibly-squishy magician hurt themselves further is rough.  Choose the timing wisely you must, sez ShadowYoda.
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voydangel

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« Reply #25 on: <09-16-10/1858:35> »
ok, so real quick. Spirits aside.. getting back on main topic here.

Basic question: do you get extra dice on your first aid / medicine rolls to heal people if you cast analyze device on a medkit before you use it?

Extended version:

Lets assume 5 Logic, 5 Biotech, 6 Magic and 6 Spellcasting, Power Focus 4, Spellcasting Focus 5 (Detection) just for sake of having some real world numbers.

If i cast Analyze Device Force 8 on a rating 6 Medkit (object resistance threshold 4[?]), and score 8 successes (lets just say i used edge or something if you think that's unreasonable), and then use the medkit to heal my buddy...

Assuming no other modifers for conditions, implants, injuries, etc.

Do I roll 20 dice for the first aid check? (5 logic + 5 biotech + 6 Medkit + 4 Analyze device bonus)

If so..... Shazam!
My tips for new GM's
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #26 on: <09-16-10/2007:32> »
My opinion is that yes you get those bonus dice but also -2 dice for spell sustaining unless you drop it onto a spirit or something.  Since you'd need on average 24 dice in your pool and a summoned spirit to pull this off I don't really see the issue.

voydangel

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« Reply #27 on: <09-16-10/2010:39> »
Oh no, no issue, was just making sure i had my math right. :)
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Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #28 on: <09-16-10/2330:52> »
Sorry mixing people up I guess, some people in the thread were acting like it was broken.