NEWS

Errata for the Spell Analyze Device?

  • 28 Replies
  • 11261 Views

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« on: <09-10-10/0404:54> »
Now, according to this Spell, after you beat the Objects Resistance, each net success gives you a +1 bonus to operating the device...

If you pick up a comlink, can you now hack and program with it?

If you pick up a gun, can you shoot with it?

It also removes the -1 penalty for Defaulting if you don't have the skill in it at all but, this is probably one of the most vaguest written spells out there and I wanted to know if any of the writers or editors for Shadowrun put out any comments or errata on this Spell.
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

Casazil

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 602
  • There can be only one!
    • Casazil's Shadowrun
« Reply #1 on: <09-10-10/0644:09> »
Sorry to say the books and all the errata I have says nothing to make it any clearer.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« Reply #2 on: <09-10-10/0714:14> »
I mean it's not one of those 50/50 questions where it's either pure cheese or underpowered, it just leaves everything so vague and open to interpretation that it could be used in so many different ways.  ???
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

Prime Mover

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
  • Prime Runners need Prime Fixers
« Reply #3 on: <09-10-10/0951:12> »
By no means official but for myself I rule "operating a device" as normal use for an object.  If its a pistol, shoot it.  If it's a commlink loading with hacking software, hack with it.  If it's a helicopter, fly it.  Operate the device for it's intended purpose.
Why do things happen the way they happen? For
all I know the world Is Just one big game and all of
our actions are determined by the roll of a die.
-  Dunkelzahn,  Great-Dragon

The_Gun_Nut

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1583
« Reply #4 on: <09-10-10/1417:51> »
Yes, you get bonus dice to operate the object in question.

It starts getting nasty if you specialize in using the spell or have a spirit give you some sorcerous assistance in casting it.  With enough hits, you can go from total newb to The Man With No Name in proficiency.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

anotherJack

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
« Reply #5 on: <09-10-10/1511:39> »
Don't forget you have to sustain the spell. And I doubt it works in the matrix : you can analyse a physical device, but you can't analyse a program.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« Reply #6 on: <09-10-10/2131:30> »
Don't forget you have to sustain the spell. And I doubt it works in the matrix : you can analyse a physical device, but you can't analyse a program.

That's why you Summon a Spirit of Man and give him Innate Spell so he can sustain it as just using one of his powers.... Basically, Mages are the "Dial Up Programs" from The Matrix "Tank, I need a pilot program for a B-212 helicopter"  :D
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« Reply #7 on: <09-11-10/0213:01> »
Ok after speaking to some other GM's at dumpshock and etc., this isn't as broken as I first thought it to believe due to the Object Resistance factoring in which basically takes away your first 6 successes on any Gun or Computer you want to use.... Still, it's quite an awesome spell if you start increasing your Magic to get crazy successes.
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

anotherJack

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
« Reply #8 on: <09-11-10/0249:01> »
Basically, Mages are the "Dial Up Programs" from The Matrix "Tank, I need a pilot program for a B-212 helicopter"  :D
Technomancers do the same thing with better efficiency, followed swiflty by magicians who can summon tasks and guardians spirits.
This spell clearly isn't broken compared to them.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

The_Gun_Nut

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1583
« Reply #9 on: <09-11-10/1236:34> »
A summoning specialist can whistle up a spirit of Man with the Innate Spell ability set to outrageous levels.  The specialist in my game summons force 9 and 10s constantly and suffers very little (if any) drain from doing so.  The spirit can cast the analyze device spell with 27 dice for force 9 and 30 dice for force 10 with edge, or can just buy a reroll with each casting (which drops the pools to 18 and 20, respectively).  The spirit can then sustain the spell while the summoner enjoys the, rather massive, benefits.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

anotherJack

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
« Reply #10 on: <09-11-10/1258:16> »
Quote
A spirit is generally under the control of the magician who conjured it, but to one degree or another it is still an independent entity. Even while bound and compelled to obey, a spirit has its own fate and its own free will—as such, a magician cannot compel a spirit to use (or not use) Edge on a given test. Spirits will likely use Edge to save themselves from disruption or banishment, or to assist with the completion of a goal important to the spirit or if completion of a service demands. Any use of Edge is at the discretion of the gamemaster.

So he should only roll 18 or 20 dices, no edge.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« Reply #11 on: <09-11-10/1420:19> »
So he should only roll 18 or 20 dices, no edge.
Edge depends upon the ST call and if he's been good to that spirit or has the favor of it, but having a spirit use Analyze Device can net you WAY more dice then the Bioware Skillwires Echo (and ontop of that, you can't use edge with Activesofts, even if it is a Complex Form)
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

anotherJack

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
« Reply #12 on: <09-11-10/1440:16> »
Spirit's use of Edge depends only on the GM's will, that's all. But of course, if the GM allows the spirit to use his edge each time the summoner needs it, it may occur little changes in game balance.
I know very little about technomancers, but as far as I know, they can too fix permanently these skills with a ridiculous karma cost, and they're still able to thread them in order to up them if needed.
And anyway, if you can summon such powerfull spirits, then with a task or guardian spirit in a possession tradition, 18 to 20 dices is the minimum you'll roll when using the skill. Far above what you'll get with the spell.
I don't say it's a bad use of the spell, it's interesting, but considering the summoners' abilities (wow, no drain from a 9-10 spirit, without edge it means an average pool of 18 to 24 dices, nice stats !), it's far from "very powerful".
« Last Edit: <09-11-10/1449:12> by anotherJack »
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Jonny Reload

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • The guns go PEW PEW PEW!
« Reply #13 on: <09-11-10/1850:18> »
Spirit's use of Edge depends only on the GM's will, that's all. But of course, if the GM allows the spirit to use his edge each time the summoner needs it, it may occur little changes in game balance.
I know very little about technomancers, but as far as I know, they can too fix permanently these skills with a ridiculous karma cost, and they're still able to thread them in order to up them if needed.
And anyway, if you can summon such powerfull spirits, then with a task or guardian spirit in a possession tradition, 18 to 20 dices is the minimum you'll roll when using the skill. Far above what you'll get with the spell.
I don't say it's a bad use of the spell, it's interesting, but considering the summoners' abilities (wow, no drain from a 9-10 spirit, without edge it means an average pool of 18 to 24 dices, nice stats !), it's far from "very powerful".

I just said that it was a GM's call  :-\ If your a Spirit Worshipping Shaman who's been role playing very kindly to Spirits, giving them breaks and not even making them hang around for the full duration of there services, and your NOT at least throwing them an edge roll or 2 on the Spirits behalf, your being a bad GM in terms of trying to reward a player for there efforts to make your game better.

As for Technomancers and programming options, they can have a Max Skill of 5 for free, keep in mind they still need to have a copy of the Activeware to copy this from so unless they steal an Activesoft from someone, they still gotta dish out 40K+ for each skill to permanently fix.

Now let's say you get to Magic 8, you Summoning a Force 16 Spirit (Make sure to use your Edge on Drain, your gonna need it), that spirit can then roll 32 Dice for a Threshold of 16 successes on Analyze Device, -6 successes for Object Complexity and you now have a Skill of 10.

Basically every time your Magic Rating goes up, you get 2 extra dice to EVERY SKILL that requires equipment or a device of some sort.
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

anotherJack

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 260
« Reply #14 on: <09-12-10/0542:19> »
Yeah, it's really cool, but still, compare it to what you'll get with a guardian or task spirit with the same force.
For technomancer, I don't know enough about them to argue, I just know a friend of mine made one who is a real team skillwire, granting us the skills we need with incredible ease, putting machine sprites in our devices to increase our pools, and so.
And, well, a force 16 spirit is somethin I don't see everyday… in the game I play, it's powerfull enough to erase half a town before being stopped. I don't know a physical weapon powerfull enough to hurt it, and most magicians will die if they try to banish it.
God ! According to the core rulebook, it's even smarter than great dragons ! it's a genius ! Don't make it use analyze device, make it rule a corporation, Lofwyr will bite the dust !
« Last Edit: <09-12-10/0647:02> by anotherJack »
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.