[Gathrix]

 The decker in my group wants to slave the other player's commlinks to his deck giving him master status over all the devices slaved to those comms. Does this work? I see on pg 233 that a deck can have DRx3 slaved devices, but I do not see a provision against slaving devices that control other devices.

[Novocrane]

Master protection from a device does not transfer beyond anything slaved to that device.

It does work the other way, though. Any marks on the commlink's slaves will apply to the commlink, and the commlink's marks will apply to the deck. Great for massive security breaches, if someone is dumb enough to do it.

[Kiirnodel]

As far as I'm aware, Novocrane is correct. The only way to do what the decker wants is for him to slave everything to his deck. That means the decker would have to have space for enough slaved devices so that the team's commlinks and all accessories can all be slaved. Usually this would be around 3 devices per team member, assuming all you're worried about protecting is commlink, vision enhancement, and weapon.

All that being said, accessories don't have to be slaved to function, it just leaves the individual parts vulnerable to hacking.

Also, unless the team is extremely tight on funds, it wouldn't be hard for each team member to buy Rating 6 commlinks, making the decker's "protection" likely no better than the individual runners on their own.

[Jack_Spade]

The only reason to slave to a deck is if you want to use the sleaze rating to keep them secure from detection.

And even than it's usually better to have a dedicated commlink with a stealth dongle/sleaze mod to take care of the protection.

[ClaytonCross]

I thought no one device could be both slave and master at the same time. So you can't slave a commlink to a deck if its a master of your weapon and eyewear to begin with. Am I wrong? I just read a post a few days weeks ago about some one trying to slave there RCC to a cyber deck to protect there drones and the general consensus seemed to be that he couldn't because the RCC is already a master so it could not be a slave. But in this post it looks like he can but it provides no sleaze protection to hide is drones because it only protects one level lower. Which is it? or am I just a crazy person and misreading this some how?

[firebug]

Nothing in the core book says whether you a device can be a slave and master at once.

Regardless, you can't slave everything to your deck anyways, because once you form a persona on it, it's no longer a device on the matrix, and thus, cannot be part of a PAN.

But that's okay; the way a decker protects his team is not by just having a high Firewall and giving everyone one or two more dice to resist matrix actions with.  They protect the team from matrix threats the same way a street sam protects his team from physical threats.  By eliminating them with skill and extreme prejudice.

[Novocrane]

Regardless, you can't slave everything to your deck anyways, because once you form a persona on it, it's no longer a device on the matrix, and thus, cannot be part of a PAN.

Catch 22. If you don't form a persona, you're not using the device.

I'm inclined to think that if the RAW of this doesn't change, then forming a persona icon is distinct and separate from the device icon.

That would also nix adding Persona Firmware to your firearms to hide their weapon icon on the matrix.

[Slipperychicken]

The only reason to slave to a deck is if you want to use the sleaze rating to keep them secure from detection.

And even than it's usually better to have a dedicated commlink with a stealth dongle/sleaze mod to take care of the protection.

Agreed. It seems to me like you want extensively-modified high-rating commlinks that provide very high sleaze while taking large penalties to matrix actions you'll never use with them.

My first guess for it is a Transys Avalon (rating 6, firewall 6, data processing 6), plug in a sleaze dongle for 5 sleaze, get a program carrier with virtual machine: Smoke & Mirrors plus a good agent to continuously scan itself and report marks to me. Crank up smoke & mirrors to +5 sleaze and noise, getting us 10 sleaze and a -5 to matrix actions that I don't really care about. Then increase matrix attribute by a few. Then just dump the firewall and data processing as much as I feel comfortable with modify attribute. That could get an absurdly high sleaze, potentially over 20 if we're really shameless in terms of dumping matrix condition, firewall, and data processing. It would cost a pretty penny, especially if you buy the electronics parts rather than just stripping devices, but it would give unparalleled protection to 18 devices. Hell, it makes me want to look up rules to see if I could slave my 'deck to it.

Okay yeah most of that doesn't work. I'm actually kind of glad this isn't how it actually works.

[firebug]

Regardless, you can't slave everything to your deck anyways, because once you form a persona on it, it's no longer a device on the matrix, and thus, cannot be part of a PAN.

Catch 22. If you don't form a persona, you're not using the device.

If that's the case, how do you use devices that can't form persona?  Also, not being able to be in a PAN when you're using it is the main thing that stops people from doing the "I slave my deck to my commlink!" thing.

The only reason to slave to a deck is if you want to use the sleaze rating to keep them secure from detection.

And even than it's usually better to have a dedicated commlink with a stealth dongle/sleaze mod to take care of the protection.

Agreed. It seems to me like you want extensively-modified high-rating commlinks that provide very high sleaze while taking large penalties to matrix actions you'll never use with them.

My first guess for it is a Transys Avalon (rating 6, firewall 6, data processing 6), plug in a sleaze dongle for 5 sleaze, get a program carrier with virtual machine: Smoke & Mirrors plus a good agent to continuously scan itself and report marks to me. Crank up smoke & mirrors to +5 sleaze and noise, getting us 10 sleaze and a -5 to matrix actions that I don't really care about. Then increase matrix attribute by a few. Then just dump the firewall and data processing as much as I feel comfortable with modify attribute. That could get an absurdly high sleaze, potentially over 20 if we're really shameless in terms of dumping matrix condition, firewall, and data processing. It would cost a pretty penny, especially if you buy the electronics parts rather than just stripping devices, but it would give unparalleled protection to 18 devices. Hell, it makes me want to look up rules to see if I could slave my 'deck to it.

That is some of the most disgusting cheese I've ever seen.  Thankfully a lot of that isn't possible. You can only do one cyberdeck modification; so Virtual Machine module hardwired in is where you're done.  That's still really awful though...  Virtual Machine used there seems unintended, and you know my feelings on S&M (...the program, not the sexual practice).  10 Sleaze on a commlink basically means most of your gear won't be found by anyone but experts.  Even your own hacker might struggle unless your LOG is abysmal.

[Hobbes]

Sleaze 5 Dongle is something like $75k Nuyen.  Tad expensive.  Literally cheaper to pick up the Data Anomaly Quality post-char gen for 6 Karma (~12k Nuyen) than it is to get that 5th point of Sleaze on the Dongle. 

Depending on how many devices you really need to keep Running the EvoTech Himitsu with a Program Carrier (Smoke and Mirrors&Stealth) gets you to 11 Sleaze out of the gate, grab a Receiver Dongle and you're down to a manageable three Noise on the Commlink.  Data Anomaly and you're up to 13 dice plus Logic to run silent.  Stick a Wireless off Nixdorf Sekratar in the UDP and let the Agent babysit your PAN completely offline. 

As long as you can get by with "only" 6 devices running wireless on you can pretty well ignore enemy Hackers for 16k Nuyen and an optional 3 Karma.  Useful for the very darkest of trenchcoat games with a lot of hostile Matrix activity.  Total overkill in most games though.

[firebug]

Total overkill in most games though.

Especially when you take the Internal Router cyberware into account.  Though, if your smartlink, commlink, and AR glasses keep getting attacked, that's one way to tell your GM you won't take it sitting down.  Also, fire your decker.

[Slipperychicken]

Sleaze 5 Dongle is something like $75k Nuyen.  Tad expensive.  Literally cheaper to pick up the Data Anomaly Quality post-char gen for 6 Karma (~12k Nuyen) than it is to get that 5th point of Sleaze on the Dongle. 

Wait, is that "2" supposed to be an exponent? I thought it was a typo. The Evotech is supposed to come free with an R5 stealth dongle for 11k. That price makes no sense if said dongle would be 75k on its own.

I did miss the "only one modification" thing. That makes things much more reasonable than I imagined. You could still get ~10 sleaze with a stealth dongle and hardwired program carrier (VM: smoke and mirrors and maybe sneak?), though that is prohibitively expensive if the stealth dongle cost scales exponentially maybe 8 or 9 with an evotech himitsu with hardwired signal scrub and smoke and mirrors? That is bearing in mind that noise exceeding a device's rating disables its wireless, so even with signal scrub you could only squeeze 3 out of S&M before killing your own wireless.

[ClaytonCross]

Nothing in the core book says whether you a device can be a slave and master at once.

Regardless, you can't slave everything to your deck anyways, because once you form a persona on it, it's no longer a device on the matrix, and thus, cannot be part of a PAN.

But that's okay; the way a decker protects his team is not by just having a high Firewall and giving everyone one or two more dice to resist matrix actions with.  They protect the team from matrix threats the same way a street sam protects his team from physical threats.  By eliminating them with skill and extreme prejudice.

Why would you have to make a persona on any of it? 
If you take a cyber deck/comlink get it up to 10 sleeze slave an RCC to it and it has drones slaved to it in a pan. You can run Autosofts to all your drones and hide/protect them with your cyberdeck. You could also own a comlink or cyber deck as a shield and never need to create a persona if you not a decker. The only reason you would add a persona is if your jumping into something. If your not its just a protected self contained system that you can issue commands to.

Where is this rule about persona not being allowed in PANs?
I am looking through the core book but can't seem to find it.

[firebug]

You form a persona when you take matrix actions, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about...

Also, the reason why TMs can't form PANs is because their Living Persona is not a device; and the game clearly says that a device stops being a device on the matrix when it becomes a persona.  Thus, persona cannot be part of PANs.  It makes exactly as much sense as a Living Persona not being able to slave things to it.

[ClaytonCross]

You form a persona when you take matrix actions, I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about...

No where in the core rule book does is say that. It says on SR5 p218 "A persona is more or less what it sounds like: a person in the Matrix." but not all matrix actions require a player to be in the matrix to use the matrix. For example, You can use a commlink like a smart phone without a datajack to perform a matrix search (which is a matrix action) without being in the matrix.

Also, the reason why TMs can't form PANs is because their Living Persona is not a device; and the game clearly says that a device stops being a device on the matrix when it becomes a persona.  Thus, persona cannot be part of PANs.  It makes exactly as much sense as a Living Persona not being able to slave things to it.

You don't have to make a matrix action to have your cyberdeck as a firewall for your comlink or RCC. So I don't see why you said "you can't slave everything to your deck anyways". You can. Your just saying you can't then jump into a the cyberdeck (creating a persona) or it will disconnect everything. You could still send matrix commands from a commlink not on the pan to those devices because you 4 marks. So you don't have to break you pan to make changes. You just can't you your deck as a shield and to hack. So its an expensive shield. Just like your Deck defends its self while its character is asleep.