NEWS

Example HTR?

  • 5 Replies
  • 2758 Views

忍

  • *
  • Guest
« on: <10-26-16/1457:03> »
I feel like the closest example of HTR "grunts" in core are the rating 5 grunts. Does anyone use a different stat block for HTR in their games? If so what does it look like?

DeathofVirtue

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Astral Ghost
« Reply #1 on: <11-05-16/2047:36> »
I'm mainly an sr3 guy but I tend to use the rating as a base guide for stats and then using sr3 chargen (priority system) to set up base stat points to alocate and then tailor based on what/who they are and what they are doing. 

In your case a htr team I  would be tempted to give each member 25-30 base stat points + Racial bonuses.  Magical support is liklely HTR teams arent just hired gangbangers.  Cyber is possible as is drone/rigger support.  These guys are paid to get dropped into the thick of the fray expect them to be armed and to some degree trained accordingly.  Combat drugs are likely.

At the end of the day a bland stat line can only very vaguely describe specific mooks so have several written up for each category, corp, location.

I literally have about 40 pages of mook statlines with apropriate gear and skills.  When a category is needed, say docwagon htr I will have a page with numbered mooks on it, roll to determine how many of each statline you are bringing, note the statline number and race down on a seperate sheet along with base dv of the weapon chosen and refer to your mookbook for stats (Keep open on that page).  Entire process takes about 30 seconds and you have a much more realistic set of stats than 5 dudes with 5 body 4 quickness etc.  Much more immersion, not much effort.

The only thing thats going to cost you any time is creating your mookbook in the first place, it should be a living thing, always growing.  If you take the time to organise it properly with categorys and clear writing then finding what you want is fast and simple even if it's 200 pages long.  Adding category tabs is insanely usefull.

At the end of the day your in control of the game, dont just copy paste out the books.  That extra effort can really bring mooks to life.
Because if I pass you I wont even leave a breeze.
If you search for me you won't find a trace.
What then do those seeking me say they found?
Nothing.
Zero is nothing.
I am Zero.
What better name for myself?
 -Zero on being asked where he got his name...

GloriousRuse

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 153
« Reply #2 on: <11-05-16/2142:59> »
I think the thing to stress about HTR is less the mookery and how individually shooty mcshooterson they are, but rather that they are operating with a broad range of assets in support and have rehearsed plans for reacting to something very like what your runners are doing for a very long time now. Yes, the T-Bird hitting the roof and the "SWAT Storms the Halls in a Hail of Gunfire!" cinematic method is tons of fun, but if your players are at the high end of the professional pool they aren't going to be challenged too much by feeding them a string of targets unless you make the dice pools just so overwhelmingly crushing that there never was a point.

Focus on their tactics:

Is there a way to non-lethally subdue the runners without charging in?

Can the runners simply be contained and negotiated out?

If not, why not just wear them down with constant spirit support until they have to run the gauntlet of waiting guns and drones? You have mages on rotation back on HQ summoning in shifts. They have one mage sucking drain. 

Do you really need to enter corporate property in a blaze of glory right now, or do you think you can track the runners from 30k feet up, and put a pair of anti-tank missiles into their van when there's less collateral around?

They may have hacked the building, but you own the source code; you'll establish network dominance in the end. Think you can turn the building against them?

If you do have to assault, what resources can you use to assure the preponderance of force is on your side and your KE friends don't die just because some sick anarchist mercenary wanted a payday?

And so forth. this is the type of challenge that really forces players to think and respond rather than get the dice out and mow down the "elite" for some grins.


DeathofVirtue

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 125
  • Astral Ghost
« Reply #3 on: <11-06-16/0521:21> »
Thats also a very valid point.  I'm glad you brought it up.  Units like HTR dont have an average combat life expectancy of only 1 mission for that very reason, tactics > firepower (Within reason, no tactic short of not being there is going to save you from bad drek like a thor shot).

You also missed the fact if they know they are going to be facing big big guns from street sams and the like they wouldn't hesitate to call in air support or call in specialised reinforcements for other specific threats, the fact they are still alive and kicking in a job like HTR is a testement to the fact they aren't stupid.

I was trying to highlight in my original post that a statline pulled from a book fails to cover the many different facets a single group can have and that they should just be viewed as a starting point.  A bad gm will use the same methods base stats and things for similar groups over and over.  A good gm varies the stats a bit AND matches the mook strategies to their experience and training.  For example:
A bunch of gangers may not take cover as much and are likely to take off against serious opposition (Not to be confused with organised crime groups).
Wheras a merc group in the same situation is likely to grab cover fast and make good use of flanking and supressive fire.  If they hit heavy opposition an organised retreat with dedicated rearguards is likely.
That same merc group fighting in a different environment however may utilise different, better or WORSE tactics based on the gm's understanding of how the groups experience would dictate their rules of engagement.

Because if I pass you I wont even leave a breeze.
If you search for me you won't find a trace.
What then do those seeking me say they found?
Nothing.
Zero is nothing.
I am Zero.
What better name for myself?
 -Zero on being asked where he got his name...

firebug

  • *
  • Errata Coordinator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2991
  • Scraping the bottom of the Resonance Barrel
    • Moth's Mad Path
« Reply #4 on: <11-06-16/1516:37> »
If I'm expecting a HTR team to actually show up (not usually likely since they take minutes to show up in a game where people can take multiple turns in the course of a 3-second combat round) I will stat them out as, basically a runner team but much much better trained and equipped.

Two primary combatants, a decker, and a mage.  All exceptional in combat of course, but the non-specialists are above the other two.  Decker will be skilled at cybercombat as his job will be stopping other hackers.  Magician will have some hardcore control, probably Mana Static and Control Actions (or Mob Control) to shut people down.  There's no PR difficulty when you use Mob Control to (without actually controlling their mind) force people to drop weapons, get on their knees, and allow you to restrain them.  The mage would also be skilled at combat spells and killing spirits.

They would be loaded up with Stick-n-Shock ammo, flash-bangs, and other stun damage attacks.  The combination of "stun and electricity" means they don't need to hold back and can simply focus on overwhelming the runners with automatic fire and worry not about killing anyone or about drones.

They'd all have at least a 9 in the Small Unit Tactics skill, and use it at every opportunity.  They'd also be part of a TacNet with the leader being the team's combat decker.

This is all the "default assumption" of an "average run" where the HTR are a planned part of it and are meant to showcase how you shouldn't screw with the corps on their homeground.

A non-planned thing, I'd probably just use the more generic stats, as it would imply my players are seriously dragging their ass, and this is a less secure facility in the first place.
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #5 on: <11-10-16/0501:29> »
HTR: High Threat Response.  The team is DESIGNED to be wired up, juiced up, armored up, geared up, and waiting to rush to the scene of some idiot shadowrun team that's making far too much noise, then drop onto them like a ton of bricks.  An HTR team should make any standard gang of five or six times their number run screaming in terror - the survivors, that is.  HTR doesn't talk; that's what those pussies over in SWAT do.  HTR kicks in the door at 00:00 and starts dragging out corpses and/or prisoners at 01:30.

Mages enhance the team, perhaps, but are primarily there to provide magical defense: spell defense and spirit-killing.  Hackers seek out and caret the enemy, make it so that the information war for the HRT team is won.  (Don't bother with screwing with the enemy UNTIL that war is won.)  Then lead with grenades - smoke, concussion, chem of whatever mix of 'let's screw you up first' you feel is fun.  Put chem seal on the armor so they can walk through the chem cloud - or make them 'splatter chem' instead of 'gas chem' and don't worry about the cloud, just use DMSO in the grenades.

Otherwise, an AR with an underbarrel GL is the smallest thing these guys should be toting.  And if they're not 'live on-call', they're practicing.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.