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Anarchy Rule Question: Effect Spells

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halflingmage

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« on: (01:41:25/10-24-16) »
I am a little unclear on effect spells.  Lets say I have the Analyze Truth spell Amp.  The sum total of the description says "Caster can
determine whether or not subject is telling the truth".   

So, do I have to roll for that?  If I do what is it opposed by?  Does the gm just assign a difficulty and roll that many dice?  Clarification please.


Gingivitis

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« Reply #1 on: (03:36:10/10-24-16) »
So spells still need to be cast, so there will still be a Sorcery + Willpower Test.  But once this particular spell (and most Amp Level 1 spells) is cast, the effect is simply a Narrative effect, sustained from one Narration to the next if desired.  There is no damage and there are no dice modifiers applied with this spell which is why it is Amp Level 1.

In Anarchy, in general, if a spell is successfully cast, its effects apply without a further test or further opposition.  See Confusion or Chaotic World which simply do a thing without worrying about spell resistance, etc.  A GM (or the table) can rule that a sustained spell is distracting (-2 to other Tests) or may be difficult to maintain for long, etc.

If it feels like Analyze Truth is overpowered, bear in mind, that this is one Shadow Amp out of your possible 6.  There is an economy of resources  to consider.  That is, Analyze Truth represents one more slot you are not using to melt faces, fly, heal, or debuff enemies.
Shadowrun: Anarchy Resources (GM Screens, Character Sheets, New NPCs, House Rules) at: www.surprisethreat.com

halflingmage

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« Reply #2 on: (23:05:33/10-24-16) »
I appreciate the reply, but its still a bit foggy  I understand that sorcery is will+sorcery skill.  But what am I rolling against?  Does the GM oppose me with dice?  Is there a target number?  Do I only need one hit to activate the spell? 

Same thing with conjuring, its Will+Conjuring skill to summon a spirit, but again are there opposing dice?  Do I just need one hit? With no drain and no rules for number of services that I can find it seems a bit powerful that someone with middle of the road Will and Conjuring could just keep pulling spirits out of their hoop.  I know its one at a time but you can basically always have one up without a major strain.

Gingivitis

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« Reply #3 on: (02:58:03/10-25-16) »
Every test in Anarchy is opposed. All of them.  They are opposed by either NPC stats (like shooting vs. AGI + LOG) or by a dice pool set by the GM (like an "Average" challenge is 8 dice).  In general, an active player succeeds on a Test when the active player's hits ties the GM's hits (or the target's hits).

It is up to the GM (or the table in concert with the GM) to determine how hard it is to cast a specific spell.  I might suggest a spell, on average, is an Average (8 dice opposed) Test.

There are no services or drain in Anarchy.  You have the spirit, and it does your bidding, until the next dawn or dusk, or it dies, etc.  If your table finds this too powerful, you could always use cooldown rules (p. 57) or set opposing dice higher, etc.  You might decide that to summon an average spirit is an Average (8 dice opposed) test.  But perhaps it's harder (10-12?) to summon a fire spirit in the cold or a water spirit in the desert.  There could also be modifiers instead.

I use these: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=25056.0 but they are by no means official.
Shadowrun: Anarchy Resources (GM Screens, Character Sheets, New NPCs, House Rules) at: www.surprisethreat.com

Hobbes

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« Reply #4 on: (09:54:39/10-25-16) »
If you want to get more granular, you can always add a couple stats together for the NPC opposed roll.  Logic + Will for Illusion and mental Manipulation spells.  Str + Will for physical Manipulation.  If the GM doesn't want to bother, 6 Dice for Mooks, 8 Dice for tougher Mooks, 10 Dice for Bosses. 

Linix

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« Reply #5 on: (13:40:29/10-25-16) »
If you want to get more granular, you can always add a couple stats together for the NPC opposed roll.  Logic + Will for Illusion and mental Manipulation spells.  Str + Will for physical Manipulation.  If the GM doesn't want to bother, 6 Dice for Mooks, 8 Dice for tougher Mooks, 10 Dice for Bosses.

I plan on doing this actually as my group is moving from 12 5e sessions to Anarchy, it just meshes a bit better with some of the spell effects they transferred from 5E. I still use Spell Categories and depending on the spell and situation I'll for example if an effect spell targets 1 enemy, I'll have the enemy roll in defence, bit to keep the flow moving, if the effect spell effects multiple targets or isn't super powerful, I'll roll the opposed dice determined by how difficult I feel it would be to cast. For example, a mage in my group for story reasons has "Turn To Goo". Not only will he not be able to take actions while sustaining it, but he will have to roll against the targets Str+Will. The same mage also has Mass Agony 2, so when he casts it against a group of say...4 enemies, he'll have to beat my opposed roll of 8D6, if he passes it, the targets think they have 2 physical and stun boxes of damage while he sustains it, while sustaining that spell the mage gets -2 to actions.

It's a little more crunchy, but I trust my Mage to know his spells so that all I have to do is tell him if he passes the roll or not.
I like my Runners like I like my Coffee. Dark, Bitter, and preferably keeping me awake.

Gingivitis

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« Reply #6 on: (15:47:58/10-25-16) »
I like the idea of a single target spell having a Defense = X + Y code against non-mooks.  So players cannot punk bosses but can still target their weakspots.

I like the idea of group spells using a single opposed dice pool (6, 8, 10, etc based on average targets).  So that the flow is kept plus they did spend a SA point to make it a group spell.

For "mixed company," do you think it would be fair/flow right to allow a single Spellcasting roll to be opposed twice (once by all the Mooks and once by the Boss)?  I am worried about it too because it has to flow the other way too.  Now enemy casters who target the whole player group would be resisted individually by the players (unless we consider players Mooks, lol).
Shadowrun: Anarchy Resources (GM Screens, Character Sheets, New NPCs, House Rules) at: www.surprisethreat.com

Hobbes

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« Reply #7 on: (17:05:53/10-25-16) »
I think the Fireball clearing out the riff raff and leaving a smoldering boss dude should certainly be a thing.  Just add different looking dice for "Boss only", or make a separate roll for the boss.

Gingivitis

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« Reply #8 on: (20:27:29/10-25-16) »
How do you see handling an Enemy Mage casting a debuff effect spell (one with no listed defense dice) on multiple players?

- Each player opposes with their own spell-appropriate X + Y defense (like a combat spell, not not)?
- Enemy Mage makes a standard opposed test (vs 8 for Average) and it succeeds as normal and affects all players?
- other..
Shadowrun: Anarchy Resources (GM Screens, Character Sheets, New NPCs, House Rules) at: www.surprisethreat.com

Linix

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« Reply #9 on: (20:40:18/10-25-16) »
I would lean to each PC making their own defence roll. I think the GM rolling if the PC's defend or not may make them feel defenceless and less interesting in the heat of combat.
I currently run SR and am a PC in a D&D group and I wouldn't enjoy being told our whole team got a sudden effect on us without a check of some sort.
I like my Runners like I like my Coffee. Dark, Bitter, and preferably keeping me awake.

halflingmage

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« Reply #10 on: (22:33:35/10-25-16) »
Thanks to all for replying.  That actually helps quite a bit.