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Striking Calluses Clarification

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Hobbes

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« Reply #45 on: <08-22-16/1954:18> »

Back on topic, are multiple pairs of callouses really that common?  Do GMs allow 3 pairs (say, elbow, hands, and feet) to add +3 DV?

No.

RAW no limit is mentioned.  One should have been.  I choose 1 pair.


Kiirnodel

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« Reply #46 on: <08-23-16/0141:44> »

Back on topic, are multiple pairs of callouses really that common?  Do GMs allow 3 pairs (say, elbow, hands, and feet) to add +3 DV?

No.

RAW no limit is mentioned.  One should have been.  I choose 1 pair.

If the text said something like "and if the user has a pair they gain +1 DV" then that would imply a single instance. But the exact text includes the qualifier "each pair a user has" which directly implies that you can have more than one pair. Not saying there shouldn't be a limit, just saying that the RAW implies you can have more than one pair.

It's also worth pointing out that Striking Calluses are described as being added to hands or feet (nothing more). Which would imply that you could only have up to 2 pairs (without having extra sets of hands/feet).

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #47 on: <08-23-16/0241:06> »
Jupp, I always read it as +2DV max if you fight with hand and feet. A Nartaki might get a bit more out of it.

Striking Calluses are next to Narco the best thing to come out of Chromeflesh imho.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #48 on: <08-23-16/1020:50> »
Whatever limit your table picks at random is, of course, fine by me.  Strict RAW the limit is Essence.  A Prototype Transhuman Elf Physical Adept that is literally covered in Striking Calluses for a +5 Unarmed damage (or however many you stack on).  Struck me as silly.  I picked one pair as every other melee weapon or cyber implant weapon only benefited from at most two.  Whatever other in game justification you roll with is all good.  Someone should toss this up to the Errata team at some point for an easy clarification.   

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #49 on: <08-23-16/1221:57> »

Seriously, this is one of those things I read and thought:

"Now they're just doing it on purpose."

If you need a pair to have any effect, having them sold individually makes no sense. Having them sold individually makes even less sense if you're not going to elaborate on how that works. Is "a striking callus" one callus on one knuckle? So I can have four per hand? Do they work on feet? Elbows and knees? Foreheads?

Why not just make it an augmentation you buy an get a set benefit, basically like everything else? Make different grades of it, if you want, like Bone Lacing. You don't have people trying to stack bone lacing, claiming it's for different bones...

...well, you probably DO, but they're the outliers.  ::)


-Jn-

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #50 on: <08-23-16/1234:59> »
Well, it was pointed out before. There is an effect for having just one. The damage code for your attack becomes (STR) P. So it changes your unarmed damage to Physical instead of Stun.

Descriptively, I read the Callus as basically the equivalent of installing hard-liner gloves into your hand. So my reading was 1 per hand. Trying to read more into the "non-stated information" is about on par with tring to read the cyber-skates and saying it doesn't say you have to install them in different feet...

adzling

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« Reply #51 on: <08-24-16/1016:23> »
yeah i have to say this seems pretty clear to me, one set for the hands and another for the feet.
but i will post this question to the errata team for "clarification".
thanks

Kincaid

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« Reply #52 on: <08-24-16/1029:12> »
So the next obvious question would be how abstract is your Unarmed Combat roll.  If it's a single punch and you're wearing boots, then you'd only get the bonus from your hands.  If it's more akin to how D&D defines things--an abstraction of feints and thrusts--then having multiple, exposed calluses could, in theory, stack DV.
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Hobbes

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« Reply #53 on: <08-24-16/1056:26> »
So the next obvious question would be how abstract is your Unarmed Combat roll.  If it's a single punch and you're wearing boots, then you'd only get the bonus from your hands.  If it's more akin to how D&D defines things--an abstraction of feints and thrusts--then having multiple, exposed calluses could, in theory, stack DV.

Exactly.  A simple "... up to a maximum of +X DV." would be all that is needed, mechanically.  Then let the players do whatever they're going to do. 

Reaver

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« Reply #54 on: <08-24-16/1952:02> »
Then you start getting into strange territory...

Like 4 SC is more damaging then a combat knife....

Or adding SC damage to combat axes...
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JoeNapalm

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« Reply #55 on: <08-25-16/1057:10> »
Then you start getting into strange territory...

Like 4 SC is more damaging then a combat knife....

Or adding SC damage to combat axes...

Or really, why does it stack at all?

This is kind of my point --  why have this stack by adding more calluses vs having improved grades?

If I punch you with one hand, does it hurt more because I have Striking Calluses on my other hand? On my feet?

It would make sense to treat this like the Bone Density Augmentation -- higher grades of SC give you better materials resulting in better damage, and avoiding any weirdness when people try to do silly things.

-Jn-

Hobbes

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« Reply #56 on: <08-25-16/1416:30> »
Yep, just list the + DV max and let the player fluff it however they want.  More Bumps?  Tougher Bumps?  Bumpier Bumps?  Doesn't matter if the mechanics are clear, the player can describe it however they want.

Blue Rose

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« Reply #57 on: <08-26-16/0951:36> »
Or really, why does it stack at all?

This is kind of my point --  why have this stack by adding more calluses vs having improved grades?

If I punch you with one hand, does it hurt more because I have Striking Calluses on my other hand? On my feet?
If you need a rationalization, then the more you have, the more opportunity you have to hit with one, and follow up with another.

If you have one fist, you can punch with one hand.  If you have two, you can punch with whichever hand has the better shot, and give the old one-two.  If you have both hands and both feet, you can take that opportune backhand and follow it up with a knee.

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #58 on: <08-26-16/1151:58> »
Or really, why does it stack at all?

This is kind of my point --  why have this stack by adding more calluses vs having improved grades?

If I punch you with one hand, does it hurt more because I have Striking Calluses on my other hand? On my feet?
If you need a rationalization, then the more you have, the more opportunity you have to hit with one, and follow up with another.

If you have one fist, you can punch with one hand.  If you have two, you can punch with whichever hand has the better shot, and give the old one-two.  If you have both hands and both feet, you can take that opportune backhand and follow it up with a knee.

Combat is an abstraction, but it's not that abstract in SR. And you shouldn't have to rationalize it, were they implemented well.

It's not that they don't work the way they're written -- it's just the way they're written causes a lot of unnecessary cognitive dissonance.

Clarity and consistency are SR's Achilles' Heel...always been an unfortunate side-effect of the splatbooks. Content at the expense of a coherent rule set.

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #59 on: <11-13-16/1037:38> »
As noted, the limit is, in most cases, 4 of them in all (One per organic foot, one per organic hand) ... this could change in certain instances (If you had more arms or legs, for instance) but, barring that, there's your top-end.

They're done that way for how combat is abstracted, since a 'melee attack' can be any number of punches or kicks, including, but not restricted to, "One punch to the face".

The single one taken is going to be rare, but, it fell into the general design I wanted in there, which was to list augmentations in single-form, but noting that they're usually taken in pairs, rather than having to break out single applications later. (For instance, taking a single cybereye isn't possible in core, which is silly.) ... so, I'd slip a small bonus in most for when you take pairs, but allow for you to take singles if you wanted.

My apologies for not making it more clear in the text. The errata team'll make it official later, but, figured you'd like to know while I'm passing through. :)