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So long and thanks for all the NERPS

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ScytheKnight

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« on: <06-16-16/0657:28> »
"Plan B is usually a troll with a rocket launcher."

When I think of when I first started to want to play Shadowrun, that's the sentence that always comes to mind. From the first time I heard about it's mix of cyberpunk technology and magic I knew this was a world I HAD to explore. A few years down the road and some of my mates convince me to leap into GMing a game for them, and we all rapidly decided on Shadowrun picking up the still relatively new 5th Edition CRB to start us off. I'd like to see it's been a roller-coaster ride of ups and down, but looking back at things now, it looks more like a long, drawn out train wreck.

So now, a few years and a couple of hundred bucks of (often poorly written) PDFs later... I'm walking away from the flaming wreckage that was one of my bucket list games. Maybe things might have gone smoother if I where more experienced as a GM (instead of it being my first game), or if we all weren't new to Shadowrun. But ultimately, Shadowrun 5th Edition was hostile waters from the start. Even when we where struggling to understand just the CRB it started to become clear to me on these forums that we where being punished for not being long-time players of Shadowrun. Crucial information was overlooked, reasons for rules left unclear, all because it was assumed that we already knew how Shadowrun worked.

As time went on more books where released and added to our game, opening up new possibilities and ideas... but also more confusion. Again and again the simple fact that we where still new to Shadowrun worked against us. The rules where hard to understand, but with errata coming out things where's too bad.

And then the errata stopped.

I waited patiently for months as more and more content was released, more opportunities presented, but also more problems.

As more than a dozen months passed with no errata passed I started to worry. But I was still sure that sooner or later things would improve, OK sure tables where messed up and occasional key details overlooked... but it'll be fixed, there's no way it couldn't!

Now with over two years having passed... the message is clear. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. Then in a matter of a couple of months, three strikes.

First was a promise that a Street Grimoire errata would be released... but it never arrived.

Second, a Howling Shadows released with no information needed for players, ESPECIALLY those who started at 5th Edition, to gain their own pets despite a multitude of rules hanging off just exactly that.

Lastly was a second promise of a Street Grimoire just around the corner... but again it never arrived.

I know there has been word from up high that there's no room for errata with the US Con season coming up and them focusing on new releases... the fact is, this is simply an excuse. After more than two years there are ALWAYS "New Releases" that are "More Important" than errata.

I'm not even angry about this.

I'm just disappointed.

Disappointed that my first experience as a GM turned out to be such a mess. Disappointed that a game that had been on my bucket list for years was virtually unplayable. But worst of all, as a game design student, I am deeply disappointed that a company with such an incredible license seems to not care about it at all.

All I can do now is hope that some day, CGL either has a change of management or looses the Shadowrun License to someone who cares about it as deeply as I've seen many of you here care about it. And maybe, just maybe there will be a new edition of Shadowrun that doesn't require 20+ years of Shadowrunn experience to play.

Until then:

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and NEVER deal with a Dragon.
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Tym Jalynsfein

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« Reply #1 on: <06-16-16/1043:10> »
You should try out SR4A... PDF's are reasonable and the system is Solid
Keep the Faith...
The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. - James. D. Nicoll

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #2 on: <06-16-16/1051:09> »
+1 for SR4

Best of luck to you and your group. There are a lot of systems out there that deserve a closer look.
One of my favorite alternate Cyberpunk games is Corporation . Maybe that can fill the hole until SR 6.
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farothel

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« Reply #3 on: <06-16-16/1158:28> »
In our group we also made the decision to stay with 4th edition, although at the moment we're not playing shadowrun.

Another game system which you can use is Alternity, although the books are out of print so it might be difficult to get.  You can use the fluff from Shadowrun easily while using the Alternity mechanics and it's even more deadly than shadowrun.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #4 on: <06-16-16/1520:30> »
I echo the others by saying to just keep with SR4 until 5th edition goes the way of D&D 4th.
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Magnaric

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« Reply #5 on: <06-16-16/1809:04> »
Just adding my 2¥ worth. If you really like the universe and setting and unique combination of Man meets Magic meets Machine, don't give up on the setting. I'll echo what the others have said and say try taking a look at 4th edition. Yes, 4E has its own pitfalls and issues(exploding dice pools, etc), but it's a complete rules set and more impirtabtly, it's been THOROUGHLY errata'd.

In my own game we're using 4E rules, but I take events and such from 5e and add them in to move the timeline forward. Does this mean I have to come up with houseruled systems for things like decking? Yes, but there's ways to manage that.

The point is, Shadowrun is my absolute favourite game universe, and I love playing and GMing it. The 5E rules have great potential as a sy stem,  but Catalyst needs to fix A LOT of things before it approaches the smoothness of previous editions. So try not to let one bad edition ruin the game for you. :-)
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adzling

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« Reply #6 on: <06-16-16/1833:48> »
Scythe my man I totally feel you, and I have been playing Srun since 1e.

Catalyst has just totally thrown away their opportunity here because they refuse to address the issues in 5e.

So much fail it's painful to watch, it is like a slow-motion car wreck.

And you are right though, there are no more excuses. Catalyst is flat out of them after 2+ years of no effort to make their customers happy.

My group is barely hanging onto Srun, mainly because I am the primary GM.

But frankly I am very close to the edge of treating Catalyst the same way they treat us, telling them to go frag themselves and doing something else instead.

So much sad, so much missed opportunity, so much fail.
« Last Edit: <06-16-16/1908:05> by adzling »

PiXeL01

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« Reply #7 on: <06-16-16/2131:23> »
At least keep reading the fiction, especially the Legends as there are so many gems hiding there.

And I am pretty much in the same situation as Adzling; the only reason why our group still plays is because I'm running it and am the only person having even a small grasp of what's going on and what to roll, and I wind it half the time, basing many of my judgements on my experiences with SR2 & SR3 having skipped SR4.

The current state of the game is truly something the setting does not deserve. Hoping it will reach a state that will call you back.

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firebug

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« Reply #8 on: <06-16-16/2237:59> »
I love 5th edition; or at least, what there is of it.  I like the matrix changes, I like the combat changes, and I like the spell and adept power changes.  Everything that exists in 5th, I like, beyond maybe the Bull's Eye/Double Tap called shot and most of what they did to TMs...  The issue is that there's a lot missing, and Catalyst isn't fixing it.  I can't even begin to guess why, but it always bugs me a bit to see things like Shadows In Focus or Hard Targets come out while I'm still waiting for "Untitled Technomancer Supplement" or Errata for whatnot.

We always hear it's being worked on, but I wonder who would be needed to contact, who really controls the prioritization of things like this, so they could know that it seems a lot of people are upset and how they could change it?
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Novocrane

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« Reply #9 on: <06-17-16/0048:17> »
Quote
I wonder who would be needed to contact, who really controls the prioritization of things like this, so they could know that it seems a lot of people are upset and how they could change it?
Talking has been attempted already. It's a mistake to think opinions have not been noted.

As long as the conversation can be turned to saying it's just about to get better, then it's the kind of communication that allows for two years without errata. Try something different.
« Last Edit: <06-17-16/0049:58> by Novocrane »

firebug

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« Reply #10 on: <06-17-16/0103:28> »
Quote
I wonder who would be needed to contact, who really controls the prioritization of things like this, so they could know that it seems a lot of people are upset and how they could change it?
Talking has been attempted already. It's a mistake to think opinions have not been noted.

As long as the conversation can be turned to saying it's just about to get better, then it's the kind of communication that allows for two years without errata. Try something different.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but...  Can you show me where it's been attempted, and what the results were?  Knowing how this forum works, it seems like somebody who couldn't do anything would probably have been contacted--  Like how people tend to get annoyed at the freelancers, despite them having very little say in what order things get written (or at all).
« Last Edit: <06-17-16/0105:34> by firebug »
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

MijRai

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« Reply #11 on: <06-17-16/0121:23> »
I've tried twice; once by myself and the second time after one of the Missions people suggested I should and said they'd try to make sure what I say gets noted.  We're talking straight to Jason Hardy each time.

Both times I was apparently ignored; no response, not even some canned garbage.  I stopped at that point. 

I have no problem with the freelancers, the writers are great.  I place the responsibility where it belongs, with the higher ups who've failed repeatedly.
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Dinendae

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« Reply #12 on: <06-17-16/0218:43> »
At least keep reading the fiction, especially the Legends as there are so many gems hiding there.


That's pretty much where I've been for awhile now. The only games I can get locally are Missions games and there hasn't been one of those in this area since November 2015, due to the state the game is still in. I'm grabbing the PDFs of the old novels, as I loved those stories, and I've been picking up the PDFs of the main books for the fluff in them to keep up to date on what has been going on in the various plots. I've been debating whether or not to continue buying the rule books anymore, or just stick to the novels and the enhanced fiction (when those come out).


For the first time since 1992, I have been seriously considering walking away from Shadowrun and switching to Battletech again. I'd rather not, as I love the Shadowrun setting, but we're approaching the three year mark since the release of 5th Edition and the rules I need to recreate my 4th Edition dronomancer are still AWOL. I get that things happen, and that plans go awry, but we're still getting the same message: "They're aware there is an issue, they're looking at it," and yet it's still an issue. Some of the problems (i.e. errata) were a major problem back in SR4, is still a problem in SR5, and (when it come out eventually) looks like it will continue to be a problem into SR6.


It's fast approaching the point where I can't justify to myself spending more money on the game.  :-\

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #13 on: <06-17-16/1921:34> »
Yeah the only thing I'll be doing is when I get around to finishing my current batch of Legends buying the next batch that's out.

For now, we're looking to move over the something simpler and better written. Vampire the Requiem 2nd Edition and Call of Cthulhu 6th Edition are the front-runners at the moment... we've having a meeting tomorrow to make a decision.
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MijRai

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« Reply #14 on: <06-18-16/0203:38> »
If you want simpler and more concise, FATE is a good option; I love the Dresden Files RPG.
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?