NEWS

Walking into a sustained Area Mana spell? Are you affected?

  • 40 Replies
  • 4149 Views

The Bald Man

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 191
« Reply #15 on: <05-07-16/0901:00> »
@Reaver The crux of my question is what happens to people once they leave the area of effect (6m radius)?  Do they continue to be under the influence?  What happens to new people who enter the area?  If the people who leave continue to be influenced AND the new people entering are influenced - then you get EVERYONE.


Whiskeyjack

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
« Reply #16 on: <05-07-16/1100:03> »
I'd say if you leave the area you're no longer affected. If you walk in you are. This is for spells like eg opium den, chaotic world.

I think Hot Potato is intended to work differently.

Also I don't think any of this is really spelled out in the text, which is awesome.
« Last Edit: <05-07-16/1103:36> by Whiskeyjack »
Playability > verisimilitude.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #17 on: <05-07-16/1208:25> »
The book actually provides an answer to this question; I happened upon this section while trying to figure out the answer to a different question.
Quote from: SR5 p282
STEP 7: DETERMINE ONGOING EFFECTS
If you sustain the spell (that is, if you want the effect of a Sustained spell to continue), you take a –2 dice pool penalty to all tests while it is sustained. You can sustain multiple spells, but the –2 penalty is cumulative for each spell. Area effect spells that are sustained can be moved as a Complex Action, provided that the spell area is in the magician’s line of sight. Characters that drop out of the affected area are no longer affected by the spell, while characters that are enveloped by the new affected area must defend against the spell accordingly.

There's also this specifically for Detection spells.
Quote from: SR5 p285
Counterspelling may be used to defend against active detection spells, even if the target is unaware of them being cast (for example, if they walk within range of an active Detect Enemies spell).

That should settle the question of moving AoE spells, I think.


Still doesn't answer the OPs question, but I stand by my interpretation that unless specified like for Hot Potato a magician casting a spell can choose who the targets are in an AoE unless it's a physical effect outside of the magicians control. This would give a slight advantage to direct combat spells as you could choose to cast a mana ball on your opponents even if one of your team members is actively engaged in close combat with them without fear of hurting your team mate.

This interpretation also makes sense for spells like Silence, where a magician could choose to not affect his crew so that they could converse within the sphere of silence while anyone else would be affected normally.

ETA:
To clarify, I think the only spells where a magician doesn't get to choose who is affected are indirect combat spells, as the magician only shapes the source of the spell and lets the mana do the rest.
« Last Edit: <05-07-16/1215:09> by Herr Brackhaus »

Whiskeyjack

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
« Reply #18 on: <05-07-16/1213:00> »
I think that interpretation greatly reduces the utility of spell shaping. My read for eg Stunball is you're throwing a ton of mana into the area and it affects everything with an aura in it, unless you scalpel out "no zones" with spell shaping.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #19 on: <05-07-16/1216:33> »
I agree with that, Whiskeyjack, but how else do you explain the specific wording of spells like Hot Potato and Foreboding, which in no uncertain terms state that everyone in the AoE is affected. Why would this need to be specified if that wasn't the general rule?

bangbangtequila

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 442
« Reply #20 on: <05-07-16/1225:52> »
It is still useful for indirect spells, and given the huge damage codes you can pull for those, it makes a lot of sense to take it as an initial metamagic, and combine with things like wall of fire and physical barrier to let your teammates through the AoE while still hampering your enemies. It definitely makes it a more defensive metamagic though.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #21 on: <05-07-16/1325:13> »
I don't see anything to indicate anywhere that you can selectively choose who is included in your area of effect and who isn't without spell shaping.

I don't put much stock in the poorly written/ copy pasta'd Street Grimoire.

As we've seen again and again S.G. screws up stuff and has poorly thought-through or not even implemented rules references.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #22 on: <05-07-16/1355:14> »
Another question for the Missions FAQ, for sure.

Whiskeyjack

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
« Reply #23 on: <05-07-16/1458:20> »
I agree with that, Whiskeyjack, but how else do you explain the specific wording of spells like Hot Potato and Foreboding, which in no uncertain terms state that everyone in the AoE is affected. Why would this need to be specified if that wasn't the general rule?
I am not willing to read in an implied exception clause of that magnitude. More likely it's just a restatement of the general rule.

If they were to say "Unlike other area of effect illusion and manipulation spells, this spell affects everyone in the area it occupies not just specific people targeted in that area" that'd be another story as it would be an explicit exception to a (new) general rule. But I'm not willing to infer that much - it's well beyond the pale of a reasonable inference.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #24 on: <05-07-16/1521:52> »
Fair point.

Coyote

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 136
« Reply #25 on: <05-07-16/1817:58> »
I agree with that, Whiskeyjack, but how else do you explain the specific wording of spells like Hot Potato and Foreboding, which in no uncertain terms state that everyone in the AoE is affected. Why would this need to be specified if that wasn't the general rule?

I'm of the opinion that rather than SPECIFYING that Hot Potato affects everyone, they're REITERATING that Hot Potato affects everyone. In other words, re-stating the general rule as a reminder to would-be Hot Potatoers, rather than carving out an exception.

Whiskeyjack

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3328
« Reply #26 on: <05-08-16/1335:31> »
I'm of the opinion that rather than SPECIFYING that Hot Potato affects everyone, they're REITERATING that Hot Potato affects everyone. In other words, re-stating the general rule as a reminder to would-be Hot Potatoers, rather than carving out an exception.
Yeah, since it's in a different book than the general rule it's not a bad idea to reiterate it so you don't have to jump between books to fully understand how it works, or just as a reminder.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #27 on: <05-08-16/1555:07> »
I still think it's odd that the writers make this effort on a couple of spells only, and then inside the individual spell entry instead of at the beginning of the section, for example.

Spvehile I think it's a good point that it could be an error, I'm not willing to make the assumption that it doesn't have a purpose other than reiteration, either.

adzling

  • *
  • Guest
« Reply #28 on: <05-08-16/1614:20> »
Remember, the Catalyst writing & editing process (or lack thereof) tends to produce these types of contradictions/ lack of clarity.

Also remember that the Street Grimoire in particular was the most terribly affected by these shortcomings, rife with copy-pasta'd stuff from 4e, rules that are referenced but not defined/ included and lots of stuff that has been shown to be incorrect/ inaccurate.

Given the above I would posit that the most likely reason for the ways those two particular spells is written is simply; poor editing.

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #29 on: <05-10-16/1246:36> »
Whelp, Ray Rigel (thanks!) resolved this question quite definitively in the SRM FAQ thread, though I personally think it's a testament to how spread out the Shadowrun rules are that none of us in this thread found the answer in the bloody book!

SR5, pg. 281:  All targets in the area of effect that you can see, friend and foe alike, are valid targets for the spell. The only way to not hit someone in your A0E is to not be able to see them or using Spell Shaping.  rr