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Technomancers....what do you think?

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firebug

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« Reply #30 on: <04-20-16/1037:57> »
Fair enough; playing entirely based on Sprites IS possible, but a hassle.  The people who've been around in the previous edition and have read the various fictions just know that isn't how technomancers are intended to be.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #31 on: <04-20-16/1126:11> »
Yeah, TMs got thrown in the cell with Bubba the Love Troll and sandpaper for lube.

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Fair enough; playing entirely based on Sprites IS possible, but a hassle.  The people who've been around in the previous edition and have read the various fictions just know that isn't how technomancers are intended to be.

#TRUTH

Seriously, did the people writing TM rules for 5th actually READ Emergence, or any of the 4th ed rules, or ANY of the fictions involving TMs? As it is, TMs have officially replaced riggers as the red headed stepchild of SR.
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« Reply #32 on: <04-21-16/1449:32> »
Has anyone houseruled material from Unwired in 5th?

Mirikon

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« Reply #33 on: <04-21-16/1528:14> »
No, since the matrix rules have changed so dramatically, most of that stuff would be really hard to fit now. Like, y'know, the ENTIRE TM STREAM BASED ON RIGGING!!!
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Moonshine Fox

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« Reply #34 on: <04-22-16/0929:16> »
Has anyone houseruled material from Unwired in 5th?

I've converted some of the material, but like Mirikon said, with how much the matrix and decking rules have changed, some of that stuff is going to need a big time overhaul to get a working right again. Kinda that base problem with technos in general when you get down to it.

firebug

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« Reply #35 on: <04-22-16/0935:04> »
Yeah, compared to how they used to work, Technomancers have been completely changed.  Literally nothing works the way it used to besides sprites when it comes to TMs and the Matrix.

Not just that, but other ways it changed as well...  Like, with the change of initiative passes, my favorite echo Mesh Reality would be a lot more bookkeeping in 5th if it worked the exact same.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #36 on: <04-22-16/0938:18> »
Mesh Reality is so cool. It's one way to significantly differentiate Technomancers from Deckers by allowing the former to kind of co-exist in the physical and digital simultaneously.

Of course, in 5th it's even harder to be a Technomancer with decent mental and physical stats, so the usefulness of the echo is diminished right out of the gate unless you make a few house rules.

firebug

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« Reply #37 on: <04-22-16/0948:09> »
Of course, in 5th it's even harder to be a Technomancer with decent mental and physical stats, so the usefulness of the echo is diminished right out of the gate unless you make a few house rules.

I don't think so.  IMO, the benefit of Mesh Reality was reducing how vulnerable you were in VR.  It didn't give you extra passes, and most TMs didn't have more than one in meatspace.  But it meant you could be doing VR stuff, with all the VR bonuses, without having to be unconscious hiding behind a crate somewhere.

My original 4e concept for Firebug had her using Mesh Reality to be jumped into her pimped out motorcycle while still conscious so she could pitch molotovs at other riders and stuff still.  But since rigger technos are so gimped in 5th, that's not doable for even more reasons...

It didn't really make you that much stronger, but it did so in a really cool and unique way that made TMs seem incredible, since they were doing something that should have been totally impossible.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #38 on: <04-22-16/1004:04> »
Definitely agree on the rule of cool of it.

Now that I think about it, though, can't deckers do the same by disabling the RAS override of their SIM module? That was definitely a thing prior to SR4, but I think it was in SR4 as well and it's even mentioned in SR5 under the sim chip descriptions.

dragrubis

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« Reply #39 on: <04-22-16/1030:43> »
I think bio-wire, acceleration echoes can be transformed with (relative) ease (and for those echoes leveling by bying high levels have a sens
Mesh reality need some work ( you can you 2 différent colors for dice) But it has an other good effect, you become more active in meat world to. (not a lot of actions but your have a better init to do it)

I think the Resonance Riding new echos is a "little" start and can be reinforced with an advanced echoes adding possibilties with each following submersion grade... Compile Sprite, Register Sprite or Thread Complex form or use the best attribute - tool or living persona-.or use the tool to take matricial damages... (with 4 submersion grade in total you can do everything then)

E-sens is a big add on for technomancer since it upgrade with a new sens that detect technologie. Including Cyber.

Resonance trodes, widget, and a lot of them are usefull ANd easy to update.

Overclocking and advanced overclocking need to come back too...

Technomancer need to have another echoes :
An echoes that can give modifiable bonus to matricial attributes just like decker do it (1 floating point per 2 submersion grade) giving a use to the reconfiguration action
An echoes that reduce maintaining cost of CF and it may be upgraded : reducing total malus from  sustaining CF by (submersion grade)
An echos that reduce know FC fading values with each submersion permit you to reduce 1 point of fading to one of your FC up to 3 point by FC

I think a new complex form to acquire 1 resonance program by 2 hit can be a good thing too so the resonance program echoes is less usefull exept for some need to have always program)
« Last Edit: <04-22-16/1032:53> by dragrubis »

firebug

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« Reply #40 on: <04-22-16/1135:09> »
Definitely agree on the rule of cool of it.

Now that I think about it, though, can't deckers do the same by disabling the RAS override of their SIM module? That was definitely a thing prior to SR4, but I think it was in SR4 as well and it's even mentioned in SR5 under the sim chip descriptions.

There's absolutely no rules for it.  It's different for MoodChip and TripChip BTLs, since they're altering your experiences, not overwriting them.  Suffice to say though, if it took mystical powers in SR4 to do it, I'd be really pissed if normal deckers could just tweak a bit and have it.

The Hitchhiker program is shitty enough at that sort of thing already.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #41 on: <04-22-16/1352:37> »
SR4A and earlier has rules for disabling the RAS Override, which is what makes you go ragdoll when using VR.
Quote from: SR4A page 328
As a safety precaution, sim mods override your motor functions while you are fully immersed in VR/simsense, so that you don’t blindly thrash around in the real world and potentially injure yourself or break things. This means that your physical body is limp while you’re online, as if you were sleeping. This reticular activation system (RAS) override can also be disabled with a Hardware + Logic (5, 1 hour) Extended Test, at the user’s own risk.

If I remember correctly, if you disabled the RAS Override in SR3 and previous editions you were at a +8 to all target numbers for Perception, and a +4 to all target numbers for any physical activity.

firebug

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« Reply #42 on: <04-22-16/1522:55> »
Mmkay.  I don't see how you could actually do anything worthwhile though, seeing as you'd still be seeing VR.  You'd just kind of...  Well, as it says "blindly thrash around in the real world and potentially injure yourself or break things".
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #43 on: <04-22-16/1632:33> »
Again, in previous editions you took penalties to Perception and physical actions, but you were experiencing both physical and virtual realities simultaneously. A +8 to Perception target numbers in SR3 definitely meant you had stiff penalties, but you could still differentiate between a wall and an open space but spotting the person sneaking up on you would be very very difficult.

It's a Mesh Reality light feature, if you will. Deckers can operate in both realities at the same time, but Technomancers do it better.

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« Reply #44 on: <04-24-16/0507:18> »
Hoping that I can offer a dissenting opinion without being flamed, but I'd be happy if every Technomancer was suddenly infected by the Monads, boarded a ship to Mars and were never heard from again.

I don't like Technomancers as PCs.  They aren't different enough from Deckers in the role they provide to a team to warrant being available.

As threats, they're fantastic.  When they were first introduced the level of paranoia as people's commlinks were hacked was very useful to me as a GM.

Horizon and Clockwork have the right idea: grab 'em and dissect their brains.  For cash.
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