NEWS

Interest Check: Plots and Paydata

  • 96 Replies
  • 16329 Views

Zweiblumen

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1803
« Reply #30 on: <04-19-16/2114:49> »
Hell I've alreasy decided this will be pink mohawk for the sake of simplicity. I won't make it easy but... I at least expect this to be amusing.

If the char is too over-the-top, lemme know.  Happy to adjust as needed.

Would love feed back from all involved honestly.  I know HB spends a decent amount of time in the various TM threads.
Speech, Thoughts, Comm/Text, Subvocal

Raiderjoseph

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
  • When in doubt, blame the dragons.
« Reply #31 on: <04-19-16/2202:17> »
Just hit me. We need a face.

I can see about a Face if no one else is chomping at the bit for it. :)

All you bro.
From To<<Matrix message>>
Thoughts
Mentor
"As a Mage I have no issue with 'shoot the face first'. He deserves it and it's about time they stopped targeting me right from the go." -The Tekwych

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #32 on: <04-19-16/2336:58> »
If the char is too over-the-top, lemme know.  Happy to adjust as needed.

Would love feed back from all involved honestly.  I know HB spends a decent amount of time in the various TM threads.
Holy crap, you weren't kidding about the junkie aspect!

You're a braver man than I, that's for sure. Cereprax is, as you say, a moderately difficult to get a hold of drug, but with +3 Intuition and +4 Logic because of Narco and Analytical Mind I can't exactly fault you for going full hog. Still; Cereprax and Jazz are both Addiction Rating 9, Threshold 3 drugs. And Cereprax is a 14F, 800¥ a pop drug, but with a mild addiction you only need to partake at least once a month. I would still be worried about further addiction, to be honest. You're probably good on Psychological tests what with your Willpower 6 + Logic 5 + Narco 2 + Nephritic Screen 3 for a total of 14 dice, but you're at Willpower 6 + Body 2 + Narco 2 + Nephritic Screen 3 or 11 dice against the Physiological effects. I wouldn't gamble on those odds personally, but that's just me :)

Solid choice of Complex Forms, though I would probably switch Misread Marks for Cleaner for long-term hacking. If IC is launched, it's time to GTFO for all technomancers or suffer the consequences, what with the "Technomancers take all Matrix damage as stun DV" stipulation.

All in all, though, looks like a well thought out character from a concept perspective.

That being said, I know you're planning on using Diagnostics, and I'm one of the GMs who probably wouldn't allow it to be used like you're hinting at.

Diagnostics is a power that I feel is far too open to misuse, though it is one of the best reasons to use sprites. Unlike Resonance Veil, which is too vague to be generally useful, I find the blanket term "electronic device" used in the Diagnostics description is just too broad for my liking. As such I wouldn't allow Diagnostics to be used on something you weren't actively using; smartgun enabled firearms, decks, cars, and items like maglock sequencers (hint, hint :) ) or indeed any device that you are actively taking an action with is something I would consider fair game. Allowing it to work in various ware and armor that just provide passive bonuses just feels like pushing the limits to my mind, again because it just makes the power too good. And I follow the old adage of "If something is too good to be true, it usually is". Anyway, that's just my opinion, though I think you share it based on your comments :)

One question: how do you get 14 dice on attack "with drugs" when using your SMG, though? Agility 2 + Automatics (SMGs) 4 (+2) + Smartgun 2 is 10, with a maximum of 14 with sprites (Teamwork is limited by Skill). As far as I can tell you've got Cram, Jazz, Novacoke, Psyche, and eventually Cereprax, but I don't see any Agility boosts. You could take aim, but that's highly situational, after all, so I'm just curious how you get higher.

And yeah, don't speedball any of those drugs, especially Cereprax and Jazz :D

Zweiblumen

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1803
« Reply #33 on: <04-20-16/0042:57> »
For the Agility: Warrior with Speed Demon (2) gives +3 (4 with Narco) Agility.

tl;dr: I like to play devil's advocate, please don't hit me with a rule book for being a rules lawyer.  Regardless of what is RAW, GM decisions are final and I'm merely responding to questions asked.  Again, please don't hit me with a rule book, I'm a gentle soul! 
No really, feel free to ignore everything I say here.
[spoiler]
For diagnostics, I'd say that the bonuses from the Berwick Suit are roughly equivalent to the bonuses from a smartgun.  Both are feeding you real time information to adjust your actions to a more desired result.  Where I wouldn't stack is that the Berwick suit is one device and the Overcoat is a second device, which while technically true and their bonuses explicitly stack, I think is a cheese too far.  Where this is limited is by the teamwork test (which in HighTimes case is 1), though there have been interpretation (that I don't agree with) that point out that Diagnostics is written differently than normal TW tests.

All said, I'd say that he's limited to 18 dice with sprites and and drugs (with the sprite(s) rolling well) on Automatics (SMGs), and 11 dice on social skills since he doesn't have more than 1 ability in any of them.  Given that we've got a real face on the way, I'm not gonna worry about trying to squeeze any more juice outta the Social Skills.  He can spend a lot of money and effort to not suck at them when needed :)

Addiction is a bitch, and I'm playing a junkie.  That said, there's about a 75% chance of getting 3 hits on 11 dice.  When you throw re-rolls for edge in there it jumps to >98% chance (if you allow edge for addiction tests).  Again, with cheese, you could argue that you're *actively* using the nephritic screen to filter the drugs so could sprite the device (super SUPER cheese, and IMHO takes all of the risk of playing a junkie away).

End of the day, I get as many dice as you say I do when I do :) (and I mean that in the best way possible!)  Negatives are negatives if the never cause a problem.  HT is a junkie (probably with an attitude problem), and eventually the numbers are gonna catch up with him and he's gonna be *more* addicted.
[/spoiler]

On speedballing:  1) wish he could afford designer drugs!  (well, he can on everything but the Cereprax, but ¥¥) 2) Do you have any effects other than those listed on p. 193 of Chrome Flesh for mixing?  Also, would you say that Narco applies to the effects on that table (specifically the -2 damage and halving the duration)?

Finally, on acquiring things.  I'd argue that a pharmacist doesn't have a very good CHA + NEG pool, thus by RAW would be almost impossible for them to get their hands on anything.  But they sell drugs for a living, getting their hands on drugs is their *job*.  Would they be able to sell me my drugs?  Gotta say, that was kinda the story behind why HT would have a pharmacist for a contact.  And he's got a, weak, background in chemistry.  Either way lemme know.  If we are going RAW, he's going to have a *really* hard time getting Cereprax (totally okay with that!) and we get to have fun with the withdrawls and such.

Sorry I rambled on so long :(
Speech, Thoughts, Comm/Text, Subvocal

Raiderjoseph

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
  • When in doubt, blame the dragons.
« Reply #34 on: <04-20-16/0051:39> »
Hey keep in mind that as a newb I am well within my rights to do very stupid unrealistic things if I detect you using my newbishness to get superhigh die pools. I trust your judgement to use self control for roleplay sake and I can accomendate high die pools easily enough. I highly doubt none of you are gonna go without getting a glitch or crit glitch. But don't make me summon Deus. Im that crazy... of course your all nice people... right?
« Last Edit: <04-20-16/0057:08> by Raiderjoseph »
From To<<Matrix message>>
Thoughts
Mentor
"As a Mage I have no issue with 'shoot the face first'. He deserves it and it's about time they stopped targeting me right from the go." -The Tekwych

Zweiblumen

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1803
« Reply #35 on: <04-20-16/0115:29> »
Hey keep in mind that as a newb I am well within my rights to do very stupid unrealistic things if I detect you using my newbishness to get superhigh die pools. I trust your judgement to use self control for roleplay sake and I can accomendate high die pools easily enough. I highly doubt none of you are gonna go without getting a glitch or crit glitch. But don't make me summon Deus. Im that crazy... of course your all nice people... right?

* Zweiblumen looks around.
Of course we're all nice!  That's why we run the shadows!

In all seriousness, I never would have assumed you were a newb.  You made salient and well reasoned points.  SR is chock FULL of points that are up for debate and, IMHO, GM fiat is a valid resolution to those. 
Speech, Thoughts, Comm/Text, Subvocal

Raiderjoseph

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
  • When in doubt, blame the dragons.
« Reply #36 on: <04-20-16/0122:36> »
Hey keep in mind that as a newb I am well within my rights to do very stupid unrealistic things if I detect you using my newbishness to get superhigh die pools. I trust your judgement to use self control for roleplay sake and I can accomendate high die pools easily enough. I highly doubt none of you are gonna go without getting a glitch or crit glitch. But don't make me summon Deus. Im that crazy... of course your all nice people... right?

* Zweiblumen looks around.
Of course we're all nice!  That's why we run the shadows!

In all seriousness, I never would have assumed you were a newb.  You made salient and well reasoned points.  SR is chock FULL of points that are up for debate and, IMHO, GM fiat is a valid resolution to those.

...I did? Thanks but I am curious when I did this.
From To<<Matrix message>>
Thoughts
Mentor
"As a Mage I have no issue with 'shoot the face first'. He deserves it and it's about time they stopped targeting me right from the go." -The Tekwych

TrogTheTroll

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 2
« Reply #37 on: <04-20-16/0319:31> »
hey, you guys still need a face, or does the techno pretty well have that pinned down? if not, id love to throw in my hat.

Raiderjoseph

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
  • When in doubt, blame the dragons.
« Reply #38 on: <04-20-16/0705:59> »
hey, you guys still need a face, or does the techno pretty well have that pinned down? if not, id love to throw in my hat.
In0rchid said he would make one but standby chummer.
From To<<Matrix message>>
Thoughts
Mentor
"As a Mage I have no issue with 'shoot the face first'. He deserves it and it's about time they stopped targeting me right from the go." -The Tekwych

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #39 on: <04-20-16/0731:12> »
For the Agility: Warrior with Speed Demon (2) gives +3 (4 with Narco) Agility.
Aaah, I forgot about custom drugs! I was in a Missions headspace, and they aren't allowed there. Makes sense, carry on! :)

ETA:
Man, Narco is so freakin broken...
So Warrior (STR+1, AGI+1, BOD +1, WIL -1) with Speed Demon 2 (AGI+2, REA +2, STR -1, INT -1) gives you AGI +4, BOD +2, REA +3, WIL -1, and INT -1? For 8R and 135¥ a pop that's just stupid good... See my comments about "too good to be true" earlier. I won't argue that it's not RAW, but compare that to other drugs like Cereprax or K-10 in terms of raw effects; those are crazy expensive, highly illegal, and have massive negative side-effects. In your case, you take 2S damage at the end of the 10 x 1D6 minute duration. Womp, womp.

Also, what's the addiction rating of that drug? I feel like I am missing something, as I don't see an explanation for the star in the table on page 192. I knew there was a reason we banned custom drugs at our table.

tl;dr: I like to play devil's advocate, please don't hit me with a rule book for being a rules lawyer.  Regardless of what is RAW, GM decisions are final and I'm merely responding to questions asked.  Again, please don't hit me with a rule book, I'm a gentle soul! 
No really, feel free to ignore everything I say here.
[spoiler]
For diagnostics, I'd say that the bonuses from the Berwick Suit are roughly equivalent to the bonuses from a smartgun.  Both are feeding you real time information to adjust your actions to a more desired result.  Where I wouldn't stack is that the Berwick suit is one device and the Overcoat is a second device, which while technically true and their bonuses explicitly stack, I think is a cheese too far.  Where this is limited is by the teamwork test (which in HighTimes case is 1), though there have been interpretation (that I don't agree with) that point out that Diagnostics is written differently than normal TW tests.

All said, I'd say that he's limited to 18 dice with sprites and and drugs (with the sprite(s) rolling well) on Automatics (SMGs), and 11 dice on social skills since he doesn't have more than 1 ability in any of them.  Given that we've got a real face on the way, I'm not gonna worry about trying to squeeze any more juice outta the Social Skills.  He can spend a lot of money and effort to not suck at them when needed :)

Addiction is a bitch, and I'm playing a junkie.  That said, there's about a 75% chance of getting 3 hits on 11 dice.  When you throw re-rolls for edge in there it jumps to >98% chance (if you allow edge for addiction tests).  Again, with cheese, you could argue that you're *actively* using the nephritic screen to filter the drugs so could sprite the device (super SUPER cheese, and IMHO takes all of the risk of playing a junkie away).

End of the day, I get as many dice as you say I do when I do :) (and I mean that in the best way possible!)  Negatives are negatives if the never cause a problem.  HT is a junkie (probably with an attitude problem), and eventually the numbers are gonna catch up with him and he's gonna be *more* addicted.
[/spoiler]
No worries man, it's all good. I get your point of view, I just happen to disagree ;) And absolutely, this is definitely one of those "GM call" moments. RAW is one thing, but RAW doesn't always make sense. And your example of Nephritic Screen is just off, by the way; that's bioware, so not an electronic device ;)

On speedballing:  1) wish he could afford designer drugs!  (well, he can on everything but the Cereprax, but ¥¥) 2) Do you have any effects other than those listed on p. 193 of Chrome Flesh for mixing?  Also, would you say that Narco applies to the effects on that table (specifically the -2 damage and halving the duration)?
Oh, you haven't seen the overdose rules? Check SR5 page 415:
Quote
Too much of anything can hurt you, or even kill you. Whenever you take a substance while you’re already on that substance or one that has a shared effect (like the way cram and novacoke both affect Reaction), you take Stun damage with a DV equal to the sum of the Addiction Ratings of the overlapping drugs, resisted with Body + Willpower.
Essentially, take Psyche and Cereprax at the same time and you're looking at resisting (9+6)=15S DV with just body + willpower (ouch!). I would say that those rules are still in effect, as drug interactions from Chrome Flesh apply whenever you mix drugs. The core rules only apply whenever you mix drugs that have the same effects (i.e. both enhances Intuition, for example).

Finally, on acquiring things.  I'd argue that a pharmacist doesn't have a very good CHA + NEG pool, thus by RAW would be almost impossible for them to get their hands on anything.  But they sell drugs for a living, getting their hands on drugs is their *job*.  Would they be able to sell me my drugs?  Gotta say, that was kinda the story behind why HT would have a pharmacist for a contact.  And he's got a, weak, background in chemistry.  Either way lemme know.  If we are going RAW, he's going to have a *really* hard time getting Cereprax (totally okay with that!) and we get to have fun with the withdrawls and such.

Sorry I rambled on so long :(
That one would be up to the GM, but you could easily just take a Street Doc as a contact and call him or her a "pharmacist". Street Doc from SR5 has Negotiation 4 and Charisma 3, though, so not exactly a great guy for getting you stuff. I actually much prefer the Missions rules for contacts, as it means players don't have to build their own contacts according to some sort of unknown rule set, and one player ends up with vastly "better" contacts than another. So Dice Pool for Swag would be Connection + Connection + Loyalty, which if you have a highly connected pharmacist makes it a lot easier.


Hey keep in mind that as a newb I am well within my rights to do very stupid unrealistic things if I detect you using my newbishness to get superhigh die pools. I trust your judgement to use self control for roleplay sake and I can accomendate high die pools easily enough. I highly doubt none of you are gonna go without getting a glitch or crit glitch. But don't make me summon Deus. Im that crazy... of course your all nice people... right?
Hey, keep in mind there are other people on the team too! Just because our technomancer is high as a kite and rolls high dice pools doesn't mean the rest of us do; so if Deus shows up, please have him focus on the TM first :D

I'm sure it'll be fine; it's a cooperative game, and it's all about fun, right.

For what it's worth, I didn't figure you for a beginner either. But hey, we all had to start somewhere, so it's all good.
« Last Edit: <04-20-16/0742:45> by Herr Brackhaus »

Raiderjoseph

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 684
  • When in doubt, blame the dragons.
« Reply #40 on: <04-20-16/0952:51> »
Anywho... once we get that last sheet in lets get to work.
From To<<Matrix message>>
Thoughts
Mentor
"As a Mage I have no issue with 'shoot the face first'. He deserves it and it's about time they stopped targeting me right from the go." -The Tekwych

Herr Brackhaus

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3041
« Reply #41 on: <04-20-16/1130:45> »
Looking forward to it!

Bewilderbeast

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 957
« Reply #42 on: <04-20-16/1309:53> »
I'll try to finalize my guy tonight. One change I know I'm making: I'm changing his 'Distinctive Style' NQ to 'Dead Emotion: Anger'. Distinctive Style was supposed to represent a pair of obvious cyber eyes, but I ended up removing those from the build in order to cram in more bioware. His Dead Emotion NQ is adequately explained by his completed background, which I'm going to put in a spoiler because it got super long, heh.
"Dialogue"
<<Matrix/Comm>>
"Astral"
Thoughts

Zweiblumen

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1803
« Reply #43 on: <04-20-16/1310:20> »
Hey keep in mind that as a newb I am well within my rights to do very stupid unrealistic things if I detect you using my newbishness to get superhigh die pools. I trust your judgement to use self control for roleplay sake and I can accomendate high die pools easily enough. I highly doubt none of you are gonna go without getting a glitch or crit glitch. But don't make me summon Deus. Im that crazy... of course your all nice people... right?

* Zweiblumen looks around.
Of course we're all nice!  That's why we run the shadows!

In all seriousness, I never would have assumed you were a newb.  You made salient and well reasoned points.  SR is chock FULL of points that are up for debate and, IMHO, GM fiat is a valid resolution to those.

...I did? Thanks but I am curious when I did this.

Doh!  I confused HB's response with coming from you ;)  (Thus my response to him had so many GM references in it)

Anywho... once we get that last sheet in lets get to work.

I'll get my background up ASAP.  Today is crazy busy for me, so probably won't make it up until tomorrow.  But other than that I'm ready when you are!
Speech, Thoughts, Comm/Text, Subvocal

Bewilderbeast

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 957
« Reply #44 on: <04-20-16/1311:38> »
[spoiler] Osada Tetsuyuki was born into the insular world of a Renraku arcology off the coast of Neo-Tokyo. He registered as Awakened early in life, with powerful magical potential of some kind, but never responded to the Shinto or Buddhist magical teachings that were Renraku’s preferred corporate traditions. He was instead drawn to the Western hermetic mysteries; the writings of Paracelsus, Hermes Trismegistus and the like. Not one to squander an Awakened asset, even a highly idiosyncratic one, Renraku arranged to have young Osada transferred to a small Renraku subsidiary located in Seattle(?).

There, Osada studied with like-minded mages. Although Osada was himself a devout Buddhist, the more rational and arcane terminology of the hermetic mages he worked alongside resonated with him, and his familiarity with alchemical preparations, spells, and conjuring quickly progressed. The Renraku enclave that Osada worked for was home to a strange Buddhist cult who called themselves the Black Cedar Sangha. The goal of the Black Cedar Sangha was to help more people escape the cycle of rebirth and reach Nirvana, but the Black Cedar cultists knew that not every individual was equipped to handle the rigorous self-denial necessary to reach spiritual transcendence. The Black Cedar Sangha had a novel approach to overcoming these limitations of human nature; brain surgery.

The theory went that, with proper augmentation, the average person could shed their anger, fear, lust and craving and sooner achieve spiritual transcendence. Osada was selected for this process as a sort of proof-of-concept; if they could augment him to spiritually purity without fraying his magical talent to tatters, then surely the Renraku board would be convinced of the validity of the Black Cedar method.

The experiment involved scarring Osada’s amygdala to blunt his fear and aggression responses, while bolstering his prefrontal cortex with brain-enhancing bioware, granting him increased reasoning, greater emotional restraint, and heightened decision-making abilities. The capstone to the project was a high-end pain editor, so Osada would be able to shut off the physical world to better concentrate on matters spiritual.

The experiment appeared by all accounts to be a success. Osada recovered well after the surgery, with only slight damage to his powers. Additionally, all feelings of anger were excised from his mind. The Black Cedar Sangha was hopeful, and announced their findings to their superiors at Renraku. However, after Osada Tesuyuki was thoroughly investigated by a team of Renraku scientists, mages and Buddhist priests, they declared the experiment a failure and Osada an abomination. Their argument was that the augmentation didn’t guarantee transcendence; rather, transcendence had to be actively earned by resisting the temptation of anger, lust and fear. By removing the temptation of anger from Osada’s mind, he was no better than an animal, sapped of free will. Rather than breaking the cycle of rebirth, the experiment had doomed Osada to it.

But… Renraku is never one to squander an Awakened asset. Not even a bio-augmented abomination. Though Osada was personally doomed to be reborn, there was a certain opportunity to be had in his grim fate. Already condemned to another lifetime on earth, Osada was, in the eyes of his Renraku superiors at least, “free” to commit all manner of Buddhist sins with no real spiritual repercussions. Osada was quickly reassigned to the Active Astral Security Unit, pitting him against dangerous shadowrunner teams and other corporate invaders. Though killing is strictly forbidden, there was no harm in letting Osada summon lightning to fry Renraku’s enemies. He was, after all, already doomed. Though drugs poison the mind and weigh down the soul, preventing enlightenment, there was no harm in further augmenting Osada and feeding him a steady drip of designer drugs to ensure peak performance. In the eyes of the Renraku higher-ups, Osada’s perceived spiritual impurity made him the perfect tool for the bleakest of wetwork.

Osada, of course, did not share this view. Now that his mind was free of all anger, he felt a strange sense of altruism that he’d never experienced before. He began communicating in his dreams with a strange being who called himself Fire-Bringer, who insisted that Osada use his magical talents and his newfound clarity of mind to help the less fortunate. Realizing he didn’t have much of a future at Renraku beyond being spat upon Buddhist chaplains and eventually getting gunned down by a shadowrunner, he arranged for his own false extraction and slipped into the shadows. He doesn’t regret what was done to him, and in fact has a rather annoying sense of superiority about it, believing he is truly higher than human. Osada has been running the shadows for the past year under the handle “Zen,” and has earned a bit of a reputation as a cold-hearted bastard. After all, who could fry another man with lightning without even a hint of anger crossing his face as he does it? [/spoiler]
Bonus points to anybody who can guess the inspiration for the Black Cedar Sangha.
« Last Edit: <04-20-16/1313:16> by Bewilderbeast »
"Dialogue"
<<Matrix/Comm>>
"Astral"
Thoughts