[Captain Chaos]

Ok, I normaly don't have a problem with stuff, but I think that stick and shock ammo might be too good.

Every single one of my players has stick and shock as the default ammo for their guns. EVERY single one. Same with the other shadowrun group in the area.

A long burst from an assult rifle loaded with SnS does 13 stun damage, and half the Targets armor. Troll in heavy millspec? Likely going down to a glorified taser.

I think the best way to houserule it would be to make it shotgun only and use the tazer ranges.

[Doc Chaos]

Most people agree that SnS ammo is a broken concept. Lots of people simply ban in from their games. I am one of them.

[Usda Beph]

Our Sniper is loaded with it. He's   a pacifist as I hear but his reason for the use makes sense. Stick & shock is LESS Lethal and therefore less likely to have the Popo after us. I like his logic even IF I am toting an Ares Auto-Cannon! You know as Keys

[Turtletron]

Well, most of my players don't use them but i like the idea that it's a non-lethal way to fight and you can still enhance armor to prevent being shocked. But if ALL my player were using this, maybe i would restrict it's use only for shotgun and taser me too, or maybe just make it more difficult to obtain (higher availability score)

[FastJack]

I like the rule discussed in House Rules of changing the DV from 6S(e) to XS(e) where X is the weapon's normal damage code.

[anotherJack]

Excuse me, where do these ammunitions come from ? I don't find 'em in "arsenal" nor in the core rulebook.

EDIT : 'kay, sorry, mine is in french, the translation has nothin to do with the original. Found em.

[FastJack]

They are in the Core Rulebook with the other ammunition types.

[John Schmidt]

Not really sure that I would allow SnS in anything other than a shotgun. I have seen video of it on Future Weapons...very cool.

[Doc Chaos]

For non-lethal approaches, there is gel ammo and stun spells. Works good enough IMHO.

[anotherJack]

The most broken part of these ammo to me is the side effect of electricity damage.
You can simply increase the price of these ammo (which makes sense if everybody wants these ammo), give some to the opponents, and use from time to time flying opponents, without grounding, considering electricity damages can't affect them.

[Usda Beph]

For non-lethal approaches, there is gel ammo and stun spells. Works good enough IMHO.

True but it just doesn't have that Pizzazzzt

[Turtletron]

For non-lethal approaches, there is gel ammo and stun spells. Works good enough IMHO.

i had totally forgotten about those XD

[Doc Chaos]

For non-lethal approaches, there is gel ammo and stun spells. Works good enough IMHO.

True but it just doesn't have that Pizzazzzt

True, but if you want that you can taser the guy as soon as he's down

[Doc Chaos]

For non-lethal approaches, there is gel ammo and stun spells. Works good enough IMHO.

i had totally forgotten about those XD

As had most people. Why wouldn't they, SnS made gel ammo obsolete.

[Mäx]

A long burst from an assult rifle loaded with SnS does 13 stun damage, and half the Targets armor. Troll in heavy millspec? Likely going down to a glorified taser.

6+5=11, i dont know where you get the 13 from
But even with 2 net hits raising it to 13, the Troll has around 15 dice to resist meaning an avarage of 5 damage resisted, which means the first burst isn't likely to take that troll down meaning you need to shoot him again.

On the other hand a long burst of EX-EX has base damage of 12P, same 2 net hits raises that to 14 which is resisted with about 22 dice for an avarage of 7 damage resisted.

End result:
S&S: 8S with one long burst
EX-EX: 7S with one long burst
Using the second simple action to shoot a shrt burst with either ammo type takes down the Troll
The same troll would also go down on 2 shots from Defiance EX Shocker(wield a pair of them akimbo to get around the SS firemode)

So i fail to see the overpowerness of S&S.