[ScytheKnight]

You get people like that trying to do rediculous shit with anything, it's no reason to hate on the sapiants.

Naga with Railguns: That was right after Run Faster was released, before people who hadn't played 4th edition knew they didn't have arms. Seriously, actually read the description, it makes NO mention of the fact that Nagas lack arms. And before you argue back, most depictions of Nagas include arms, so without prior knowledge or adequate descriptions it's a logical assumption to make.

Pxies with guns because they're bigger than the character: OK this is really starting to piss me off. It says right there in the shadow talk that they can, so fucking GET OVER IT! Yes it's obvious theyre going to need to be heavily modified, we just want to know the rules for getting them modified. "But, but recoil!": Pixies are inherantly magical beings, again, get over it... they fly via magic not aerodynamics, so pehaps part of training for them is learnjng how to manipulate the energy and forces keeping them jn the air to compensate for recoil.

Shapeshifters with science degrees: Yes they are animals, magical animals with metahuman levels of intelligance. Is it likely they would get a science degree? No, but simply because most wouldn't see the point not because they're mentally incapable of it.

As for why they are there... why not? Shadowrun isn't just cyberpunk... it's a cyberpunk rave party where high fantasy has gate crashed. You know why I like the ideas of pixie or centaur or shapeshifter characters? Because they DON'T fit in a cyberpunk setting, you take this stuff out of high fantasy and you have them trying to work out what the hell to do in a cyberpunk world.

I like the idea of playing a shifter who's struggling to understand the human world and turns to running to make ends meet and keep their identity hidden. Alas shapeshifters still have a bunch of holes in their rules.

I like the idea of a flamboyant pixie mage with LED hair, cybereyes and nano-tats flinging flashy illusions and roiling fireballs with equal glee. Alas weve no idea if a pixie can use augments at all, and of course backup weapons become a problem as once again we're vaguely told heavy modification is necassary but given no actual hard crunch to work with.

As for Nagas, yeah can't really wrap my head around them... but again part of that is lack of hard crunch abour what they can and can't do... at least Hard Targets gave them a venomous bite.

tldr: Shadowrun isn't just what you think of it, so get over it.

[Reaver]

Naga have always been depicted as snakes with no arms through out history. Naga have/had important roles in the development of SE Asia were their legends originate. And, if you go to Ankor Wat, or even some of the hindu temples in India you can see the carved reliefs of Naga. (Again, no arms.)

And even in the write up for Naga, they tell you, you are a 10meter long SNAKE, do snakes have arms?

No, the problem is people reading what they want to read, mixed with what they 'think' is correct.... which falls back on them getting their info from other incorrect sources of multimedia, like Disney movies.

Heck, even in DnD, they represent Nagas closer to myth (serpents with human heads) then what some people think Naga are. (For the record, the only snake like creatures with arms are the Yaunti, an other SE Asia legend. But unlike the Naga, the Yuanti are filled with spite and resentment)

[ScytheKnight]

OK first off, quoting a lot of prior SR material, wasn't one of my points being lack of prior knowledge?

And yes, there's a lot of depictions of naga without arms, there's also lots of depictions of naga with arms.

Yes, the book does describe them as awakened snakes... but again without actually knowing what versiin of naga their being based on, there's nothing tk state that it couldn't be the armed version.

All I'm saying is that for people new to Shadowrun, it was a mistake waiting to happen. Heck knows I made it, mainly because I'm more familiar with naga having arms than without... and no, not Disney.

[odd]

You get people like that trying to do rediculous shit with anything, it's no reason to hate on the sapiants.

Naga with Railguns: That was right after Run Faster was released, before people who hadn't played 4th edition knew they didn't have arms. Seriously, actually read the description, it makes NO mention of the fact that Nagas lack arms. And before you argue back, most depictions of Nagas include arms, so without prior knowledge or adequate descriptions it's a logical assumption to make.

Pxies with guns because they're bigger than the character: OK this is really starting to piss me off. It says right there in the shadow talk that they can, so fucking GET OVER IT! Yes it's obvious theyre going to need to be heavily modified, we just want to know the rules for getting them modified. "But, but recoil!": Pixies are inherantly magical beings, again, get over it... they fly via magic not aerodynamics, so pehaps part of training for them is learnjng how to manipulate the energy and forces keeping them jn the air to compensate for recoil.

Shapeshifters with science degrees: Yes they are animals, magical animals with metahuman levels of intelligance. Is it likely they would get a science degree? No, but simply because most wouldn't see the point not because they're mentally incapable of it.

As for why they are there... why not? Shadowrun isn't just cyberpunk... it's a cyberpunk rave party where high fantasy has gate crashed. You know why I like the ideas of pixie or centaur or shapeshifter characters? Because they DON'T fit in a cyberpunk setting, you take this stuff out of high fantasy and you have them trying to work out what the hell to do in a cyberpunk world.

I like the idea of playing a shifter who's struggling to understand the human world and turns to running to make ends meet and keep their identity hidden. Alas shapeshifters still have a bunch of holes in their rules.

I like the idea of a flamboyant pixie mage with LED hair, cybereyes and nano-tats flinging flashy illusions and roiling fireballs with equal glee. Alas weve no idea if a pixie can use augments at all, and of course backup weapons become a problem as once again we're vaguely told heavy modification is necassary but given no actual hard crunch to work with.

As for Nagas, yeah can't really wrap my head around them... but again part of that is lack of hard crunch abour what they can and can't do... at least Hard Targets gave them a venomous bite.

tldr: Shadowrun isn't just what you think of it, so get over it.

I agree with Scythe about his points of mixing this stuff up, though I MUCH prefer pink mohawk to mirrored shades.  I do also get why some folks don't, Shadowrun , can be run in so many ways and that's why I like it.  Also, you can hold and shoot heavy weapons with nothign but your MIND, so why is a magical being doing so is hard?

As for Naga's having arms.  WoW, L5R, and even Ancient paintings of them have arms.

Edited to add the mind bullets part.

[Duellist_D]

The lack of real rules is awful but I am constantly bemused by how many people here have a raging, priapic hate-boner for stuff like pixies.

(from the guy constantly screaming about how dongles are utterly degenerative for the game  )

Part of it is the rules. Part of it is the 'idea' of it. And (not a) small part of it is the player to wants these types of races....

You ALWAYS see the same builds, same posts, same crap, and it goes a little like this:

"I'm a special snowflake, so I need a special snowflake race to properly represent my snowflakyness. But, because I am a snowflake and I am creating a snowflake, I will not employ any reason or common sense to my snowflake character. Thus it is perfectly acceptable for my snowflake character to use and employ items that they have NO business using. But its OK, cause I am a snowflake!"

Nagas with railguns (when Nagas DO NOT HAVE ARMS!!)
Pixies with guns (its bigger then they are!!!)
Shifters with science degrees (its a FUCKING ANIMAL!)



NO, it is not an 'original' idea. NO, we don't have to 'respect' your 'rights' to be different. NO, we don't care if we hurt your little snowflake feelings with our crushing views of 'stupid common sense'.


That make it clear why some of us have an issue with some things?

So many times this.
I actually like Pink Mohawk, but this superspecialanoflakey stuff? Ugh no.

"My little Shadowrunner - Pixies are Magic"...

[kyoto kid]

I would be more than willing to allow all my players to play Pixies, cast magic, carry Panther XXLs, and give them bonus dice to all firearm attacks after having a Pixie orgy

I like the way you think.

...me too.

[Pap Renvela]

I guess if a troll and a pixie can have a lover's spat, you can have your Roman parties.

[kyoto kid]

The lack of real rules is awful but I am constantly bemused by how many people here have a raging, priapic hate-boner for stuff like pixies.

(from the guy constantly screaming about how dongles are utterly degenerative for the game  )

"priapic hate-boner" is redundant

Though to be honest, i wouldn't even allow pixies at the table, nor any other "special snowflake" freak.

I have the same mentality concerning Technomancers.  The dumbest thing to exist in Shadowrun in my opinion.  I would be more than willing to allow all my players to play Pixies, cast magic, carry Panther XXLs, and give them bonus dice to all firearm attacks after having a Pixie orgy, rather than ever allow a single player to play a Technomancer at my game.

I like Technomancers, though I wish they were capable / allowed to do more. I get it, it's all about game balance. But really... When everything about them is basically a very specific school of magic that focuses on affecting computers instead of the natural world, they should be ruling the Matrix. They should be like Neo, able to point at drones and have them fall from the sky. And when they go online, everything should be like Play-Doh. Which is why I got really irritated when I saw Street Grimoire introduce spells like Increase Noise or Increase Gear Rating. Why in the hell are we giving ordinary Mages spells to affect stuff like that. How do you turn Fireballs and Invisibility into faster computer processors? Those should be TM abilities right there. As it stands, they're basically mutants with the ability to do Decker stuff without a deck. Not really game breaking, and certainly fits with the theme of Shadowrun overall.

Now, Pixies on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Pixies. This isn't Peter Pan, this isn't My Little Pony, this isn't a Saturday morning cartoon. If you want your 7 year old niece to play, let her roll up something else. She doesn't get to be a sugarplum princess while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

...I have a couple issues with technomancers.

While basically an interesting concept they come off as little more than matrix mages since resonance is affected by implants.  Now the whole transition period surrounding Crash 2.0 is kind of murky, however Technos effectively seem to be an outgrowth of the old Otaku. from 3E. (there is even a quality called Otaku  to Technomancer).  Many of the terms, Submersion, Echoes, Complex Forms, Sprites are shared by the two.

I played an Otaku (successfully may I add) in 3E. To function in the matrix two implants were required, a Datajack and ASIST converter which had no detrimental effect on the Living Persona.  IN fact, Otaku could receive other implants as well with no ill side effects (other than Essence loss which didn't affect ones Persona).  Also, any implants that enhanced an Otaku's mental attributes (except Charisma) also boosted linked aspects of the Persona and/or Hacking Pool..

When I first heard about Technomancers back in 4E they sounded really cool, until I learned about the whole Essence/Resonance loss thing.  "What, go into a dangerous situation that potentially may erupt in a firefight with no meat world initiative boosting.  You've got to be kidding!." Even a mage has access to spells that crank up the INT. Being stuck with one paltry die when the lead starts a flying is pretty discouraging especially when a mook with an AR or ganger with an SMG has a good chance of going before you do.  Made me almost feel like that 1st level mage in D&D, "I fire my one Magic Missile spell, then go hide for the rest of the fight.".

[ScytheKnight]

The lack of real rules is awful but I am constantly bemused by how many people here have a raging, priapic hate-boner for stuff like pixies.

(from the guy constantly screaming about how dongles are utterly degenerative for the game  )

Part of it is the rules. Part of it is the 'idea' of it. And (not a) small part of it is the player to wants these types of races....

You ALWAYS see the same builds, same posts, same crap, and it goes a little like this:

"I'm a special snowflake, so I need a special snowflake race to properly represent my snowflakyness. But, because I am a snowflake and I am creating a snowflake, I will not employ any reason or common sense to my snowflake character. Thus it is perfectly acceptable for my snowflake character to use and employ items that they have NO business using. But its OK, cause I am a snowflake!"

Nagas with railguns (when Nagas DO NOT HAVE ARMS!!)
Pixies with guns (its bigger then they are!!!)
Shifters with science degrees (its a FUCKING ANIMAL!)



NO, it is not an 'original' idea. NO, we don't have to 'respect' your 'rights' to be different. NO, we don't care if we hurt your little snowflake feelings with our crushing views of 'stupid common sense'.


That make it clear why some of us have an issue with some things?

So many times this.
I actually like Pink Mohawk, but this superspecialanoflakey stuff? Ugh no.

"My little Shadowrunner - Pixies are Magic"...

Way to be open minded you two. 

[ZeldaBravo]

Now, Orks on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Orkss. This isn't Lord of the Rings, this isn't WH40k, this isn't World of Warcraft. If you want your 7 year old nephew to play, let him roll up something else. He doesn't get to be Grommash Hellscream while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

This conversation can get weird really fast.

[Reaver]

Git offa my lawn!!!
<waves shotgun feebly from rockingchair on porch>

[ScytheKnight]

Now, Orks on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Orkss. This isn't Lord of the Rings, this isn't WH40k, this isn't World of Warcraft. If you want your 7 year old nephew to play, let him roll up something else. He doesn't get to be Grommash Hellscream while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

This conversation can get weird really fast.

[Medicineman]

Now, Orks on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Orkss. This isn't Lord of the Rings, this isn't WH40k, this isn't World of Warcraft. If you want your 7 year old nephew to play, let him roll up something else. He doesn't get to be Grommash Hellscream while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

This conversation can get weird really fast.

+1

Hough!
Medicineman

[Sendaz]

Now, Orks on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Orkss. This isn't Lord of the Rings, this isn't WH40k, this isn't World of Warcraft. If you want your 7 year old nephew to play, let him roll up something else. He doesn't get to be Grommash Hellscream while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

This conversation can get weird really fast.

LOL

Thanks I needed a good laugh this morning

Let's see what we can do....

Now, Dwarves on the other hand... the reason why I (and perhaps others) don't like them is b/c they simply don't fit the theme. Guns and gangs, criminals and corporations, money and magic, leather and lace. Shadowrun is dystopian cyberpunk. There is literally no reason to include Dwarves. This isn't Snow White, this isn't Der Ring des Nibelungen, this isn't Under the Rainbow. If you want your 70 year old grandpa to play, let him roll up something else. He doesn't get to be Bruenor Battlehammer while I'm killing guards so we can steal the paydata.

[Duellist_D]

Way to be open minded you two. 

I'm pretty open minded, i tolerate basically every variant of swatting pixies.