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[5E OOC] The Further Adventures of James and Illeana

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Tecumseh

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« Reply #525 on: <02-07-17/2002:41> »
Adelard knows who the Baron is but doesn't know him personally and so cannot offer an introduction.

Ideas include using Illeana as bait (since the Baron appreciates the attention of young ladies) or trying to impress the baron with face-slashing skills to the point (pun) where he introduces himself. Or, Illeana could start popping his spells and embarrassing him, which may not endear him to you but will certainly get his attention. Or you could KO the security and abduct him. Or just walk right up like you were Schwartzkopf since you are his agents and should demand respect as such.

Stealth tags: Availability Test: 7d6t5 4 hits

Hmm, so do tailored pheromones count? If you were shopping in person, yes, but given that James is working in a town where he doesn't know anyone and in a language he doesn't understand, he's probably limited to black-market shopping sites selling Restricted gear where his pheromones help him not.

So the tie means that he can find them but they're not available until tomorrow. I realize that there was a gap of time between the fencing on Thursday and the garden party on Friday, but such are the pitfalls of wanting to purchase things retroactively.

I'll IC it, but Illeana doesn't see Marie. Unless Marie is under a well-masked spell (which is possible, but she wasn't at the beer hall or the hostel) then she's not here tonight.

Tecumseh

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« Reply #526 on: <02-10-17/0119:54> »
IC is up. Wilhelm's tone is more curious than threatening. He does not seem hostile.

We can go into as much or as little mechanical detail as you wish. If you'd like to roll it out, feel free to roll Initiative. You will have your full pool of Edge, but note that it may not refresh before you need it again.

rednblack

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« Reply #527 on: <02-10-17/1229:22> »
Let's see how this match shapes up.

James is going to take a close look at Wilhelm Eberhardt.  He has: INT (9) + Perception (6) + Visual Spec (2) + Vision Enhancement (2) + Specifically Looking (3) = 22 dice.
Perception + Visual + Specifically Looking: 22d6t5 6
Specifically, James is interested in whether he is cybered, or likely magical.  He'll also be on the lookout from how he moves what style he's likely to employ.

Initiative: Initiative: 16+4d6 32
That's a good sign.  4 passes to start means a little more room for Interrupt Actions.
Initiative drops to 27 from Free Action listed below.

If it's possible for James to activate his CFD power boost prior to fencing, say for Hits -1 CTs then James will do that.
CFD Boost: 6d6t5 0
Or not.  At least no Drain. 

James is also going to comm Illeana to do a quick search on Wilhelm Eberhardt, which I'll cover in my next CT.

Have you decided on whether there is enough room on a fencing piste for Full Defense?

What weapon is he fencing?

Assuming James goes first he will:
Free: Pre-Emptive Parry
Complex: Reading the Defense

For Reading the Defense James has: INT (9) + Close Combat (7) = 16 dice.
Reading the Defense: 16d6t5 4
James will get a +3 on his next Melee Attack



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Tecumseh

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« Reply #528 on: <02-10-17/1344:48> »
As I was getting into bed last night, I thought to myself, I should have had Illeana comm that he's Awakened since that would be obvious to her. He's Magic 6, but she can't tell if he's Initiated or not. Notably, his sword is not a weapon focus.

Another note which I should have elaborated on: he referenced "Mr. Anderson", which is James'  best fake SIN. You don't remember the origin of your fake SINs, but it would be reasonable to assume that your fake SINs came from your time at Ares. 

Wow, tough luck on the CFD boost roll. Good thinking though. We'll say that you can try to boost once per CT, or whenever James takes Physical damage.

This is a mensur bout so you'll be expected to have your feet planted. No dodging or full defense interrupts, unless you want to socially disgrace yourself.

On that note, let's figure out some rules that make sense. At the risk of dragging the fight out too long, should we require called shots (-4) to hit unarmored portions of the target? Or even called shots to Ear (-10) or Jaw (-8)?

Based on his observations, James thinks that he'll have Wilhelm beat on attributes but not skills. Wilhelm will be using an épée and James will be expected to use the same. There are no goggles or nose guard. Your face is unprotected, but you do have armor on your wrist and hand.

You have enough time to comm Illeana before the beatings begin, as I presume there is some ceremony before the slashing starts. She'll run the search.

How long do these matches last? Is there a pre-determined end point, either in duration or wounds or submission or ...?

At work now. I'll try to get some rolling and the search results up later today.

rednblack

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« Reply #529 on: <02-10-17/1450:01> »
I found this article: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/frauleins-dig-them-0000573-v22n2

According to it, Mensur bouts go on until 5 cuts and then it's on to the next round. I'm assuming a new round means new fencers. So, is that a bout to the first to make 5 cuts or 5 cuts total? I'd imagine it's 5 cuts total given dueling history and Mensur tradition.

I'd say the -4 for a default Called Shot is probably the best bet, both to keep the bout from dragging on and because a face hit is good, no matter if it's jaw or ears and the secondary benefits of those Called Shots likely wouldn't be applicable in a fencing bout.

As for the SIN, I'd thought about that. James will be keen to talk with this man after the bout. I'm unsure how to read his ability to find the best SIN but not the real name.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #530 on: <02-10-17/2018:05> »
Let's start with 5 cuts. If we go a week and don't have much to show for it then we can dial back to 2 or 3 cuts.

I know we agreed on Called Shot (-4) but I'm going to counterbalance that with the Touch Only bonus (+2) to represent the fact that you aren't trying to deliver anything more significant than a flesh wound.

Based on James' Perception tests of Wilhelm's initial displays of etiquette and general movements, he expects Wilhelm to fight in the style of La Verdadera Destreza.

Alright, I have Wilhelm stat'd. On paper this looks like a good matchup. Let's see if the dice cooperate.

Initiative: Intiative: ? 18, he's faster than a man off the street but he's not on-par with James

Reading the Defense is a good idea but I'm going to rule that it cannot be done during the first IP of a highly ritualized fight, as precisely zero fighting has happened and thus there is no defense to read. I'm happy to save the successful roll for whenever James wishes to apply it following the commencement of hostilities, but staring intently at Wilhelm's unmoving form is not sufficient to produce the bonus.

CT1 IP1
32: James
18: Wilhelm

rednblack

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« Reply #531 on: <02-11-17/2246:47> »
Re: reading the defense, that's fair.

James will make a mellee attack. He has: AGI (11) + Close Combat (7) - Called Shot (4) = 14 dice.
Mellee Attack: 14d6t5 4
Not terribly inspiring.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #532 on: <02-12-17/0032:06> »
Just a reminder that I do allow interrupt actions to be taken even if the remaining initiative is less than the amount required for the interrupt action. The rules suggest that this isn't allowed, but I could never figure out why someone at Initiative 1 could have a Complex action but not take an interrupt action.

You forgot your Touch Only bonus dice: Touch Only 2: 2d6t5 0 hits, oh well

Wilhelm will use the Riposte martial art technique. This costs 7 initiative. 

Riposte: Reaction + Blades + Spec + Adepty Dice + Opposing Force: ?d6t5 7 hits

Oops, now I forgot to take the Called Shot and Touch Only attack modifiers. That drops two hits and leave him with 5. That's still enough to beat James' 4 hits and scratch James' cheek. One cut.

His initiative is now 11, which he'll use for an attack.

Wilhelm attack: Agility + Blades + Spec + Adepty Dice + Opposing Force + Touch Only - Called Shot: ?d6t5 4 hits

Parry roll to James.

CT1 IP2
17: James (one cut)
1: Wilhelm

rednblack

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« Reply #533 on: <02-12-17/1626:10> »
By RAW Opposing Force doesn't affect Riposte. Did you mean Yielding Force on Wilhelm's roll?

For Parry, James has: REA (7) + INT (9) + Close Combat (7) = 23 dice.
Parry: 23d6t5 10
Capped at 7 for Accuracy.  James Initiative is dropped to 12.

James will Hold his Action until Wilhelm follows up with another strike, at which point he will Parry and then attack.  A Riposte by any other name. . .

I'm actually fairly impressed with how Shadowrun rules successfully abstract a fencing match.  I fenced foil through most of my teen years, and I do epee now.  We have a saying: He who commits first loses.  The additional actions and interrupts from Run and Gun go a long way toward recreating the tactics and psychology of a bout.  For example, here we have an opponent whose Riposte is much stronger than James' attack, so his best bet is to wear him down before going in for a real touch.  I do wish the rules for Feints were better, not that James could use it.  By RAW it seems as though someone could Parry or Riposte against the Feint Called Shot, which should make it more powerful, not help the defender.  It's also strange to me that the sword fighting martial arts don't have Feint listed as a technique.

CT1 IP2
Complex: Held Action

Will there be any breaks between cuts, or will James and Wilhelm be fighting continuously until 5 cuts are scored?
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #534 on: <02-13-17/0045:15> »
Some Sunt things first, to avoid backseating GMing in public.

Flickr obviously isn't rolling well, and it might not be enough to save him, but in theory he should have had a Counterspelling roll. I'm great with it if he gets vaporized for story purposes, but if the idea is to give him a fair toss of the dice then presumably he could use Run For Your Life and/or Counterspelling.

Per the Innate Spell description, the spirit should be rolling Drain too.

Back to The Further Adventures:

Yes, I did mean Yielding Force, not Opposing Force. I'm always mixing the two up.

James' initiative is still 17. I had already subtracted 5 for the pre-emptive parry that you declared @ 32. That dropped you to 27 and the attack took you to 17, where you still are.

Good question about breaks between cuts. Answer: yes, at the end of the CT. I don't want to interrupt the CT because it would unfairly rob James of his initiative advantage.

CT1 IP2
17: James - hold action
1: Wilhelm - Parry interrupt

Wilhelm goes on the defensive. James may now attack twice (IP2 and IP3) without fear of attacks or ripostes. This knowledge is slightly meta/OOC, but I figure that James is fast enough ICly to recognize his advantage and press it. Such are the abstractions of turn-based systems.

This essentially gives James' two free attacks without fear of counterattack. The first attack is at -1 for being a Held Action, and the second attack may proceed at normal. Alternatively, you can take Reading the Defense first and attack second to benefit from the Reading the Defense bonus. Or, just attack twice to capitalize on the -1 Wilhelm will have defending the second sequential attack.

rednblack

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« Reply #535 on: <02-13-17/0949:38> »
Thanks for the reminder on Counterspelling.  Flickr gets to live! . . . for now.  He ended up with 4 hits on 6 dice, but I'll cover that in an rpol post once I figure out what he's going to do with his turn.

The Spirit did roll Drain, and not particularly well.  I'm not sure that he'll go Force 9 a second time.

I adjusted my Initiative down another 5 because of some unclear wording on the Pre-emptive Parry Free Action.  From page 122 of R&G:

Quote
"This action allows the character to use the Parry Defense option (p. 170, SR5) for an entire Combat Turn for the price of the normal Interrupt Action by making their defense active instead of reactive."

So, it essentially turns a Parry into a Full Defense freebie, arguably being much better than Full Defense -- skills and specs are cheaper than attributes and are likely to be higher -- and I don't see it as being cheaper than Full Defense in terms of Initiative.  I was playing it as: Spend 5 Initiative on the Free Action declaring Pre-Emptive Parry, and then spend 5 Initiative on a Parry Interrupt, but that Interrupt lasts the entire turn.  If James only needs to spend the 5 as a Free Action that's great, but I wanted to let you know my thinking.

James will attack twice this CT, and save Reading the Defense for the next CT. 

For the first attack: AGI (11) + Close Combat (7) + Touch Only (2) - Called Shot (4) - Held Action (1) = 15 dice.
Melee Attack: 15d6t5 9
Capped at 7 for Accuracy.  Hell of a roll, though.  Should be enough for a glancing cut.

Second attack: AGI (11) + Close Combat (7) + Touch Only (2) - Called Shot (4) = 16 dice.
Melee Attack: 16d6t5 4
I would have much rather those rolls been reversed, but such is life.

Initiative: Initiative: 16+4d6 32
Corrected Initiative is 28 once James takes his Free Action.

Assuming James goes first, he will:
CT2 IP1
Free: Pre-Emptive Parry
Complex: Reading the Defense

Once I know the results of those two last attacks I'll put in an IC.
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #536 on: <02-14-17/0058:08> »
Huh, will you look at that. I didn't even realize that Pre-Emptive actions were a thing.

I agree that they look rather powerful for just -5 initiative but the rules seem to be fairly conclusive as to their intent. -5 gets you the bonus for the whole turn; the catch is that it's not an Interrupt action and has to be performed on your turn. I don't want to balance house rules on the fly right now so we'll leave them as they stand. Let's figure out something reasonable for the future though, especially since it may come up in Sunt.

James bought the Perfect Time quality, so he has an extra free action to spend on this if he ever wants to call it at the same time as Called Shot + Attack.

Alright, Wilhelm, let's see what you can do about these attacks. There's an open question about whether Parry should apply to both attacks or just one. I've always played it that the Interrupt is active until the player's next IP, but the rules do say "this is a one-time add" which seems to imply that it should only apply to one attack. However, given that Pre-Emptive Parry lasts the whole CT, I fail to see the harm in allowing the interrupt to last for a whole IP.

First defense: Defense + Parry: ?d6t5 7 hits

I knew this question would come up. Do ties go to the defender, as usual, or to the attacker as a touch-only attack? I've been leaning toward the latter. It should help prevent things from dragging on too long so we'll go with ties to the attacker. James zips his blade across the shorter man's parietal bone, removing a chunk of hair in the process.

Second defense: Defense + Parry - 1 second attack: ?d6t5 8 hits, successfully defended

The umpire cries "Halt!" and puts his sword between the two combatants. Surgeons step in to set the wounds with SpraySkin or somesuch.

Initiative for CT2: Initiative: ? 24

CT2 IP1
Free: Pre-Emptive Parry
Complex: Reading the Defense (since Wilhelm doesn't have a second Free Action to spend on the required Called Shot)

Reading the Defense: Intuition + Blades: ?d6t5 ? hits

CT2 IP2
17: James (one cut)
9: Wilhelm (one cut)

Have you read this? Mark Twain's description of Mensur: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Tramp_Abroad/V Might help with the IC.

rednblack

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« Reply #537 on: <02-14-17/1139:39> »
Huh, will you look at that. I didn't even realize that Pre-Emptive actions were a thing.

I agree that they look rather powerful for just -5 initiative but the rules seem to be fairly conclusive as to their intent. -5 gets you the bonus for the whole turn; the catch is that it's not an Interrupt action and has to be performed on your turn. I don't want to balance house rules on the fly right now so we'll leave them as they stand. Let's figure out something reasonable for the future though, especially since it may come up in Sunt.

I think you're right.  My initial reading was that a char would need to spend the Free Action at -5 for the pre-emptive action, but would then need to use the Interrupt Parry action once during the CT -- at another -5 -- and then the Defense would last for the rest of the CT.  But, the rules do explicitly say, "for the price of the interrupt action," which makes me think that you get the whole benefit for simply using the Free Action in addition to the -5.  Pretty damned powerful actually.

Alright, Wilhelm, let's see what you can do about these attacks. There's an open question about whether Parry should apply to both attacks or just one. I've always played it that the Interrupt is active until the player's next IP, but the rules do say "this is a one-time add" which seems to imply that it should only apply to one attack. However, given that Pre-Emptive Parry lasts the whole CT, I fail to see the harm in allowing the interrupt to last for a whole IP.

By RAW, the CRB says on page 192, "This boost only deducts 5 from her Initiative Score, but it only lasts for a single Defense Test. "

I knew this question would come up. Do ties go to the defender, as usual, or to the attacker as a touch-only attack? I've been leaning toward the latter. It should help prevent things from dragging on too long so we'll go with ties to the attacker. James zips his blade across the shorter man's parietal bone, removing a chunk of hair in the process.

Since we're talking about drawing blood, I would think that ties would go to the Defender here.  Of course, I think RAW is assuming armor, and contact-only attacks still set off their secondary penalties, so I'm unsure.  Also, if ties go to the defender we may need to do away with the Touch-Only bonus, as I'm not sure how well those mechanics being in opposition play together intent-wise.  Last, I think between James and Wilhelm's dice pools, we're likely to see this stretch out if we don't have ties go to the attacker.

Have you read this? Mark Twain's description of Mensur: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Tramp_Abroad/V Might help with the IC.

I have not.  Giving it a read now.  Looks very promising.

Ok, let's see how James fares with a cut.  He has: AGI (11) + Close Combat (7) + Touch Only (2) + Reading the Defense (3) - Called Shot (4) = 19 dice.
Melee Attack: 19d6t5 6
At some point I'm probably going to have to use Edge to get a cut in, but it won't be this time.

CT2 IP2
Complex: Melee Attack
Free: Called Shot

ETA: if possible, I'd like to use the CFD boost again before fighting resumes.
CFD Boost: 6d6t5 2
Very nearly a Glitch.  If this holds, James Initiative is increased by 2, and his Reaction is now 9.
« Last Edit: <02-14-17/1212:02> by rednblack »
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Tecumseh

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« Reply #538 on: <02-14-17/1557:04> »
You are correct that the Parry interrupt only applies to a single defense test, but what about Pre-Emptive Parry? If it only lasts a single defense test then there's zero advantage to Pre-Emptive over declaring an interrupt when you need it. Then a Pre-Emptive is counterproductive because it costs you a Free action and there's a risk that you won't use it, leading to wasted initiative. The only use for it would be as your last action of the CT to cover you until the beginning of the next CT, but RAW doesn't really let you do that anyway since it wants you to have enough Initiative to cover your interrupt (or pre-interrupt) action in advance.

Per Stolen Souls, the CFD Attribute Boost requires a Simple action. We can save your roll for an IP that you want to spend on a boost.

Wilhelm parrying 6 hits: Defense + Parry: ?d6t5 9 hits, parried

Wilhelm CT2 IP2
Free: Called Shot
Complex: Melee Attack

Attack: Attack + Reading the Defense: ?d6t5 8 hits

Wilhelm keeps all hits due to adepty boosts to his Accuracy. James will either have to dodge without parry (and incur social scorn) or spend Edge pre-roll to push the Limit for his Defense test, otherwise he'll be hampered by the Accuracy of his sword.

CT2 IP3
7: James (one cut)

rednblack

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« Reply #539 on: <02-14-17/1734:37> »
Per Stolen Souls, the CFD Attribute Boost requires a Simple action. We can save your roll for an IP that you want to spend on a boost.

The idea was to use the CFD boost right before alle was called, and have it last for Hits -1 CT instead of Hits CT.  If that doesn't work, then James won't be using the boost; he doesn't have the action economy.

Let's see how James Defense holds out.  I will use Parry, and then use Edge to Push the Limit post roll.  James has 23 dice.
Parry: 23d6t5 8
There's 7 of it.  Now for Push the Limit.
Edge: Push the Limit: 5d6h5 1
Well, balls.  Another glancing hit.
If James gets his CFD powers, that's another 2 dice.
CFD: 2d6h5 1
If allowed, that would make for a miss.

If it is allowed, I need to roll Drain.  James has: BOD (5) + WIL (7) = 12 dice.
CFD Drain: 12d6t5 1
That would be 1 Stun.  And some pretty poor rolling.

Let's see how James next attack comes out.  He has 16 dice.
Melee Attack: 16d6t5 3
Hitting a string of low rolls.

As for Parry, yes Pre-Emptive Parry would count for every melee attack a char needed to defend against in a CT, but using the Interrupt Action by RAW only applies to 1 attack.
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