[Hobbes]

Well, certainly worth the extra +25% cost.  I'd debate the value of investing in a skill just to save around 15% on your Ammo costs.

3 Skill even with JoaT is 1+3+5, 9 Karma or 18,000 Nuyen essentially.  Break even point is just over 100,000 nuyen worth of Ammo. 

If you're taking Armorer anyway, then sure.  But you still need a dice pool of around 7 to get a threshold of 4 by buying hits. 

I was disappointed when I did the math as I thought I had something to do with an Armorer skill other than just flavor.  But nope.  Dice pool of 7 is just too much investment on a dump stat and a skill with minimal in game use.  Just get an armorer contact and call it a day.  IMO of course.

[kyoto kid]

With a threshold of 4 and a duration of 30 minutes, even a Logic 3 character with an Armorer skill of 1 and a Specialization in Ammunition could crank these out relatively reliably in a home game.

In Missions, due to the buying hits rule, you'd need 9 dice to start with so you could buy 2 hits on the first extended test and 2 more on the second in order to reliably make handloaded regular rounds at a rate of 10/hour. If you wanted to make special ammunition in Missions, you'd really only need 10 dice to buy 2 hits each on the first, second, and third interval, producing any special ammunition you can get materials for at a rate of 10/1.5 hour.

The +1 DV makes it instantly worth it in nearly every circumstance, in my opinion. Logic 3 + Armorer (Ammunition) 3 (+2) and a helper drone or two for teamworking suddenly became very, very useful.

...yeah as Leela is a Missions character, she just gets hers through Goober (one of the Chicago contact personalities).

[Jack_Spade]

@Hobbes

Don't spend Karma for something a drone can do for you:
The Reloading Drone costs 3000 and has armorer autosoft. If you upgrade the pilot for 3200 the drone can reliably buy four hits in two hours. Have the little buddy work 24 hours and enjoy your 120 shots per day.

[ScytheKnight]

With a threshold of 4 and a duration of 30 minutes, even a Logic 3 character with an Armorer skill of 1 and a Specialization in Ammunition could crank these out relatively reliably in a home game.

In Missions, due to the buying hits rule, you'd need 9 dice to start with so you could buy 2 hits on the first extended test and 2 more on the second in order to reliably make handloaded regular rounds at a rate of 10/hour. If you wanted to make special ammunition in Missions, you'd really only need 10 dice to buy 2 hits each on the first, second, and third interval, producing any special ammunition you can get materials for at a rate of 10/1.5 hour.

The +1 DV makes it instantly worth it in nearly every circumstance, in my opinion. Logic 3 + Armorer (Ammunition) 3 (+2) and a helper drone or two for teamworking suddenly became very, very useful.

...yeah as Leela is a Missions character, she just gets hers through Goober (one of the Chicago contact personalities).

Just in case people haven't read the latest FAQ including Hard Targets. Hand Loading isn't allowed, but you can purchase them, and combine it with anything but really exotic rounds(Subsonic, Capsule, Stick-n-Shock, etc.).

[Hobbes]

@Hobbes

Don't spend Karma for something a drone can do for you:
The Reloading Drone costs 3000 and has armorer autosoft. If you upgrade the pilot for 3200 the drone can reliably buy four hits in two hours. Have the little buddy work 24 hours and enjoy your 120 shots per day.

Hand Loaded by the finest robot mass assembly...  And why isn't the Ammo you buy off the shelf made by cheap robots?  *shakes head* 

[Jack_Spade]

As Reaver said: Different guns have different tolerances. You get tailor made ammo for your gun.

[Tarislar]

So to buy a +1DV to your Regular, Gel, APDS type ammo you just pay 25% more in a Missions game?

[Herr Brackhaus]

So to buy a +1DV to your Regular, Gel, APDS type ammo you just pay 25% more in a Missions game?

Away from books, but I believe that's it; relatively confident the availability doesn't change, but I haven't double checked that any time recently.

[Adamo1618]

Hand loads have a fixed availability of 4R

[Herr Brackhaus]

That might be one for the Missions FAQ; seems odd that hand loads wouldn't add +4 instead of having a fixed availability; unless that's just hand loaded regular ammo, and DU Rounds remain 28F for example.

[Hobbes]

As Reaver said: Different guns have different tolerances. You get tailor made ammo for your gun.

It's silly RAW and Reality mixing that is mildly humorous to me.  "Hand Loaded" is actually "Assembled by a Robot", and "tailor made ammo for your gun" RAW works with any other gun the exact same way.  RAW Hand Loaded is a quality for any  Assault Rifle (or whatever) Ammo that works in any AR, so it's not really custom for your weapon.

It's all very silly to me.  I tossed it on my own Banned list along with R.I.M. as soon as I saw it.  I was hoping Missions play would too, since Hand Loaded is simply unneeded source book escalation, IMO.   

[Jack_Spade]

A matter of taste I guess.

I like the image of especially crafted ammo for special occasions. Or modded ammo for your modded gun
(A Ruger Super Warhawk with, personalized grip, extended barrel, ammo select, smart link, custom design and hand crafted Ex-Ex/APDS/Gel rounds just fit together so well)

[Hobbes]

A matter of taste I guess.

I like the image of especially crafted ammo for special occasions. Or modded ammo for your modded gun
(A Ruger Super Warhawk with, personalized grip, extended barrel, ammo select, smart link, custom design and hand crafted Ex-Ex/APDS/Gel rounds just fit together so well)

Oh absolutely.  Armorer, and to a lesser extent Hardware, are underutilized skills RAW.  I would love for the "WeaponMaster" type character to be more viable with rules that support customized weapons, ammo, and armor.  As it is, shooty characters are best served dumping logic and the assorted skills and picking up a contact, or a drone. 

[Jack_Spade]

For that kind of weapon master you need a control rig and your weapons on smart platforms.

Funnily enough this kind of weapons master only needs Logic and Gunnery to function

[Damian Knight]

Dear Loyal Customers,
We here at Ares Macrotechnology strive to ensure that our products are at the bleeding edge of technology.
That being said, we are currently developing a new line of longarms that will rock the entire market.
However, at this time we here at Ares Macrotechnology can only provide what is currently on sale: the celebrated Ares Alpha.
This rifle has been the choice rifle for countless soldiers, security personnel, private military companies (such as Knight Errant and Firewatch), and for some of the most daring shadowrunners on the planet.
Time and time again, this rifle has proven to be the most qualified rifle for standard combat, wherever and however that may take place.
Although there are many restrictions on the Alpha, we here at Area Macrotechnology strive daily to make this quality firearm available to a wider crowd of responsible people.
Despite these restrictions and what other people may say about 'concealability' and other details, this rifle is still the best on the market.
It's in the name: Alpha

Please take time to consider all the advantages of Ares equipment.
-Damian Knight, CEO and President of Ares Macrotechnology