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Is Shadowrun really this brutal?

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kyoto kid

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« Reply #90 on: <01-09-16/2357:42> »
...yeah, that sniper is a real pain in the hoop. Good my face was armoured like a tank (including Orthoskin) and there were visibility modifiers for the shot or I would have been back at the computer creating a new character.

That was only the second mission I was ever on.
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Tarislar

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« Reply #91 on: <01-10-16/0005:40> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
« Last Edit: <01-10-16/0338:24> by Tarislar »

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #92 on: <01-10-16/0018:51> »
...yeah, that sniper is a real pain in the hoop. Good my face was armoured like a tank (including Orthoskin) and there were visibility modifiers for the shot or I would have been back at the computer creating a new character.

That was only the second mission I was ever on.
If you use all your Edge and don't save a point for a Hand of God if it becomes necessary, thats on you ;)

But that's a perfect example; your GM chose to use an encounter listed in a Pushing the Boundary section, and he chose to attack you. That's on him. The Mission didn't force his hand in this respect in any way, shape, or form.

kyoto kid

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« Reply #93 on: <01-10-16/0157:08> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is on picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
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Tarislar

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« Reply #94 on: <01-10-16/0338:07> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not a picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
No.  Season 4 was set in Seattle.

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #95 on: <01-14-16/2340:01> »
Yeah, Seattle.

My Face took a bullet to the... face, there.

Too bad for the sniper it only pissed the character off. Do you know how expensive it is to repair high end anthroform drones?

:)


-k

Sendaz

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« Reply #96 on: <01-15-16/0359:11> »
Yeah, Seattle.

My Face took a bullet to the... face, there.

Too bad for the sniper it only pissed the character off. Do you know how expensive it is to repair high end anthroform drones?

:)


-k
I can see someone with a cruel but not deadly streak going, "Don't kill them, just make their wallet bend the wrong way." ;)
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cantrip

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« Reply #97 on: <01-15-16/1141:24> »
Yeah, Seattle.

My Face took a bullet to the... face, there.

Heh - I see what you did there!  :)

cantrip

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« Reply #98 on: <01-15-16/1153:16> »
I can see someone with a cruel but not deadly streak going, "Don't kill them, just make their wallet bend the wrong way." ;)

Yah - we had a GM that always blew up or bikes and apartments; so eventually we gave up trying to make money. But we were a "good karma" group -- he once gave me a level 3 weapons focus (this was 2nd edition), knowing that I would give it away. Course he also liked to give me permanent wounds - I think I had six boxes of permanent physical damage. Granted it was always in cool ways - all of his magicians carried swords and shielded. So it ended up coming down to physical prowess and swordsmanship with a few magic affects. Kind of like a Jedi duel. Add to that his amusement of throwing Charisma 8 elven females at my character...who was naive, chivalrous and was a protector type. Think Rand in the first few books of The Wheel of Time series - that probably is where he got his ideas. Fun times. Fun times.  ::)

rednblack

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« Reply #99 on: <01-15-16/1323:50> »
Shadowrun is actually a less lethal game than many games.  The reason being that, while a character can die very easily, PCs all have Edge which can essentially be extra lives.  In D&D, a dead character is dead, and the magic to bring him back is expensive and high level.  In SR, there's no revival magic (at least, not that works the way anyone wants it to) but even a freshly made character can take otherwise lethal wounds several times depending on their Edge score.

That said, in most games I play, characters getting geeked isn't common anyways.

Edge is situationally very useful, but burning Edge to not die, doesn't mean that the char gets away, etc.  If you're facing a HTR, and the team's making their getaway, you'd only be burning Edge to spend the rest of that char's life in prison . . . or worse. 

Yes, I think SR is very lethal, but it's that way on its own without a GM pulling out all the stops or bringing a -- in my opinion -- flawed world and game view into the mix.

Now, off the rails:

We're the colonists evil when they invaded north america and killed the indigenous population?

Yes.

As for Shedim, just because something is acting in accordance with its nature doesn't mean that it's not evil.  It's very nature could be evil.  "Nature" is not evil or good.  It simply is, true, but the big difference, in SR, between a Shedim and an earthquake is that the Shedim has the Sapience characteristic. 

The problem with the latter part of this conversation is that we're dealing with competing moral philosophies that are at odds.  Does Utilitarianism have some problems?  Certainly, you can justify slavery, harvesting organs from healthy people, and a whole other host of problematic actions because it's for the greater good.  Kant's Categorical Imperative is likewise problematic because someone hiding Jews in Germany in WWII would be immoral by lying to the authorities about the presence of said Jews when they came knocking.  But might is right, or, who holds the gun is, in my opinion, the least defensible position of them all, and really nobody -- read very few people -- actually believes it.  If you hold that position then you are ok with female genital mutilation, child pornography, gas bombings of civilians, rape, theft, murder, etc. simply because one can.
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firebug

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« Reply #100 on: <01-16-16/0831:05> »
Shadowrun is actually a less lethal game than many games.  The reason being that, while a character can die very easily, PCs all have Edge which can essentially be extra lives.  In D&D, a dead character is dead, and the magic to bring him back is expensive and high level.  In SR, there's no revival magic (at least, not that works the way anyone wants it to) but even a freshly made character can take otherwise lethal wounds several times depending on their Edge score.

That said, in most games I play, characters getting geeked isn't common anyways.

Edge is situationally very useful, but burning Edge to not die, doesn't mean that the char gets away, etc.  If you're facing a HTR, and the team's making their getaway, you'd only be burning Edge to spend the rest of that char's life in prison . . . or worse. 

It'd be poor form for a GM to have a player still get more or less a "game over" despite burning Edge.  If the team does nothing to recover them after they go down (a dumb move, considering interrogation and torture to find accomplices is a thing) then they would get captured, but rather than "life in prison, make a new character" there should be a continuation, maybe an attempt to get the guy out.

I don't mean literally a prison break, but that can be done sometimes.  I also mean like, datasteals for leverage, bribery, cashing in on favors gained, etc.

The way I see it, it's the same as having a character who burned Edge lose a limb.  You aren't dead, you can keep playing this guy, but there's gonna be a big inconvenience.  Unless all your limbs are already modular cybernetics...  In which case you're kinda just sliding Death a credstick if you lose a limb.  But in those cases, there's "you wake up in a closet without any of your limbs".  And boy would that be a story to tell JackPoint...
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Dinendae

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« Reply #101 on: <01-16-16/0847:56> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not a picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
No.  Season 4 was set in Seattle.

Was that the one that started you out kind of mid-run? If so, I remember that our Pixie Face/Mage took a sniper round and got turned into pixie dust!

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #102 on: <01-16-16/0926:52> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not a picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
No.  Season 4 was set in Seattle.

Was that the one that started you out kind of mid-run? If so, I remember that our Pixie Face/Mage took a sniper round and got turned into pixie dust!
Serves em right for playing a pixie.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Dinendae

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« Reply #103 on: <01-16-16/0936:09> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not a picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
No.  Season 4 was set in Seattle.

Was that the one that started you out kind of mid-run? If so, I remember that our Pixie Face/Mage took a sniper round and got turned into pixie dust!
Serves em right for playing a pixie.

Then you'll appreciate that another player started clapping his hands when it happened, saying "I believe! I believe!"  ;D

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #104 on: <01-16-16/1048:40> »
The one in 4.2 Extraction is not a picnic either.  :(

Snipers as a rule are just plain nasty, that kind of DV combined w/ Surprise is just MEAN unless your a Troll Tank & can shrug it off.
...was that part of the Tennessee run?
No.  Season 4 was set in Seattle.

Was that the one that started you out kind of mid-run? If so, I remember that our Pixie Face/Mage took a sniper round and got turned into pixie dust!
Serves em right for playing a pixie.

Then you'll appreciate that another player started clapping his hands when it happened, saying "I believe! I believe!"  ;D
top kek  ;D
Playability > verisimilitude.