[antaskidayo]

okay, then how will this impact on SRM? I just want something easy for the players and a basic GM like me, I dun want to drag the game with complex approach and take out the players fun at the same time

- So they take the sinner NQ and form some kind a mercenary team for a corp
- They must also synch their contacts and background stories then.
- And they can only use those F weapons for contracts which their sponsored A +/- corp hands over to them. Other sources/johnsons will not get them weaponize clearance.
- Anything else???

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

... for Missions?  They can't get a license.  Period, full stop.  Missions work off the standard SR.

If you want them to have access and license to use heavy (Forbidden) weaponry, then they get it from the corporate quartermaster, they sign for it, for the bullets, and they account for every round fired when they return the weapon.  And they'd better return the weapon - or enough of it for the QM to agree that it was screwed.  If this is the way you're going to go, then don't bother with the merc route, because they're already signing up as limited-authorized independent contractors.  A Sinner NQ would help, but it isn't absolutely necessary.  And they definitely don't need to form a merc corporation.

The merc corporation - which I'd benchmark the bond at a minimum of five million nuyen, plus an additional million nuyen per registered team member - is if they want to own the weapons themselves, and be able to show some rent-a-cop that searches their place that they are what's called in the biz an 'end-user certificate', issued by the Merc Board in Lisbon and legal in any country that employs mercenaries - which is ALMOST all of them.  I do not, however, think that the UCAS is one.  Salish-Sidhe, on the other hand, yes.  It does not, however, allow them to carry outside a war zone.

[Hobbes]

okay, then how will this impact on SRM? I just want something easy for the players and a basic GM like me, I dun want to drag the game with complex approach and take out the players fun at the same time

- So they take the sinner NQ and form some kind a mercenary team for a corp
- They must also synch their contacts and background stories then.
- And they can only use those F weapons for contracts which their sponsored A +/- corp hands over to them. Other sources/johnsons will not get them weaponize clearance.
- Anything else???

Or, as others have said, don't get caught.  Which is what most Shadowrunners aim for.  PCs can buy "F" gear just fine, just don't bring it anywhere you know you're going through a check point you can't beat.  Simple as that. 

[Senko]

Yep as said earlier in the thread somewhere out there is an Ares (or more likely sub, sub, sub, sub, sub corp with nice solid evidence it belongs to someone else) busily manufacturing and selling these things through discreet arms dealers to "valued" customers.

Returning to the licensing I'm curious does this mean you can take corporate SIN and have a real license as an agent for the corporate court? As distinct obviously from being able to tote around F items, in fact you'd probably want said license to be as clean as you can make it since its on a lot of servers and leads right to you. However you do have something that means you could walk up to Ares as part of  your dayjob and get the full tour they have reserved for visiting VIP's/AGENTS to make them leave feeling all their questions have been answered whereas they haven't in fact even gotten close to what they came to invistigate in the first place.

[gradivus]

Except for a few items like the monowhips, Ares doesn't have to hide that it's making F rated assault rifles, machineguns, etc. They have legitimate contracts with national armed forces, police departments w/HRTs, etc. Same goes for most other corporations. And remember there are places in the world where no assault rifle is forbidden- weapons manufactures have even less problems in those places.

[Ursus Maior]

No civilian can ever have a license for forbidden gear.  It's purely military or similar, where it should never be found "in circulation".  Such licenses for Forbidden gear don't exist because they don't need to.  Soldiers don't need a license to use what they're issued in the field, and the military they work for has something more complex than a "license to buy forbidden gear" that a single person could have.

Yes and no, in a way. The concept of a "license" in SR5 is very scetchy at best. If you look at the examples given for licenses in the core book, you can see that licenses can exist for single items (e.g. a certain kind of 'ware), for items of one group (e.g. "destructive devices" as per today's US-law) or as part of a larger "identity add-on" (e.g. private investigator, matrix security provider, aka spider or hacker). The latter group would make it possible to forgea SIN with accompanying licenses that make the character appear as if he would be in legitimate possession of "F"-rated gear. And that actually makes some sense, since soldiers, while allowed to carry and use F-gear are not allowed so, because they are solderis, but because they are soldiers on active duty with a certain order to carry that gear and use it. Without proper order, you cannot log out your armor, tank or even a handgun out of storage.

And in game terms these orders, too, would translate as licenses. They are merely programmed add-ons to a (fake) SIN. That's a rather clums concept of a license, but in SR5 licenses are neither strictly in-game nor strictly out-game devices. They are an out-game mechanic that allows for diffrent in-game results. And since not every scanning device will itself be licensed to search licenses and SINs in-depth, fake SINs and fake licenses can work with diffrent efficiency in diffrent systems. As a federal government, I would not allow local polices or other organisations to scan too deeply in my armed forces "licenses" (i.e. orders for soldiers). So all a KE-device can do about a runner, posing as an undercover federal agent with top-notch gear and 'ware, is confirm if the order looks okay (e.g. checksum is valid etc.) or not. While every door-device of said agency's duty station in every city might pose a higher threat to uncovering the fake SIN.

[CitizenJoe]

The point is that you're not a civilian.  You fake the fact that you're military or police and then nobody questions you. 

[Marcus Gideon]

How does it usually play out in the movies? Where the President gets on the news and says "We've declared a state of emergency. National Guard troops are being mobilized." And then the scene cuts to downtown, and we see Tanks, and Humvees, and troop carriers driving down Main St. And then troops start jumping out of the back, every one of them wearing full battle rattle and carrying a machine gun. And none of the authorities say a thing. You know why that is? Cus it's not just "well, he's obviously got a license."

1) The President declared an emergency.

2) Orders were cut, to get those units activated and deployed.

3) Lots and lots of paperwork was filed, in order to requisition those vehicles out of the motor pool, and all those weapons out of the arms rooms.

4) The entire Army just drove down the street.

5) They're all in uniform, acting under orders from the President (see #1).

THAT... is why they're allowed to use (F)orbidden equipment. It's an official action, sanctioned by all the right people, taking place on a very large and obvious scale.

When you, Mr Shadowrunner, walk into the local Stuffer Shack to pick up a 6-pack of beer... and you've got an Ares Alpha strapped to your back. You can't just tell the checkout clerk "Oh, don't worry. It's for official Army business." For one thing, there isn't an Army outside obviously doing Army things. And secondly, you're buying beer.

So no... there is no way to fake the funk and "legitimately" wander around with (F)orbidden equipment. It takes A LOT more authority than flashing your Leeloo Dallas Multipass.

[Ursus Maior]

Of course you have to stay "in the role" and act professional. And there is way more F-rated gear than big weapons. I'm with Wyrm here. If your (fake) papers say, you're allowed to carry that F-item, you behave like the officer checking on you thinks you should and you act professional, then of course you can get away with it. But you need to make a lot more effort than owning a civilian fake-SIN that has a registered, but equally fake concealed carry permit.

In fact, the fake-SIN is the perfect example. Those are themselves F-rated items. And unless you behave like a complete idiot (aka "pink mohawk"), it will get you everywhere a real SIN can get you, depending on what nation or corporation supposedly issued that SIN. This can mean diffrent things in diffrent contexts, though. A fake UCAS-SIN will get you through the UCAS and a higher rated fake SIN might even get you a vote on election day or a visum for the PCC. Though that's unclear, because technically those are licenses added to your fake as well. But a UCAS fake SIN will not get you into any area of the SK-arcology downtown, except those open for tourists. Unless you added a tourist visum. A fake SK-SIN with no extras might do the trick just fine, though. And still, both fakes are highly illegal. Everywhere. Everytime.

[Novocrane]

In fact, the fake-SIN is the perfect example. Those are themselves F-rated items.

It really isn't. SINs aren't F rated. Fakes are. Imagine responding to a sales rep with something like, "Do you accept payment from fake SK SINs?"

[CitizenJoe]

Forbidden level stuff exists at such quantities that laws were created to make them illegal.  In order for them to exist in such quantities someone has to be making and selling them.  That means that those items have to be usable by somebody.  The question is who?

The Forbidden rating applies to private individuals.  A different set of laws applies to law enforcement, corporations, government agencies, and military organizations.   So, the objective is not to get a permit to carry the forbidden item, but rather get a license that proves you are a member of an organization which the law does not apply.

[Sendaz]

In fact, the fake-SIN is the perfect example. Those are themselves F-rated items.

It really isn't. SINs aren't F rated. Fakes are. Imagine responding to a sales rep with something like, "Do you accept payment from fake SK SINs?"

Ironically many shops DO accept Fake SK SINS because said shops always get paid once they present the bill to SK Accounting, and through some probably unrelated quirk of fate shortly thereafter those persons using said fakes either end up mysteriously devoured / otherwise vanished or become gainfully employed by SK and end up with a valid corp SIN anyway.

See also: Dining Out on Goldsnout's Account

@ CitizenJoe :  so which organization do you think would be the best chance to pull off faking as?

[Novocrane]

So, the objective is not to get a permit to carry the forbidden item, but rather get a license that proves you are a member of an organization which the law does not apply.

I'd approach it from a different angle. What are the ownership settings on the item in question? If it's set to an individual, they cannot obtain a license - or more specifically, they do not exist. Digital ownership of legitimate F rated items would remain with the corporation, and attempts at faking would either be obvious or equivalent to notifying the corporation where their gear is.

[CitizenJoe]

@ CitizenJoe :  so which organization do you think would be the best chance to pull off faking as?

Ambassador of foreign nation with diplomatic immunity.

Lone Star fugitive recovery.

Corporate Court GOD tactical team, or local grid DemiGOD tactical team.

Seattle Metroplex Guard

FBI

CIA

ATF

Treasury Dept.

Edit: of those, the Metroplex Guard is probably the best for overt military hardware if you can get a squad together with matching vehicle.

[Senko]

In fact, the fake-SIN is the perfect example. Those are themselves F-rated items.

It really isn't. SINs aren't F rated. Fakes are. Imagine responding to a sales rep with something like, "Do you accept payment from fake SK SINs?"

Ironically something similar to that happened a few years back. A group robbed a bank and the teller who was the inside man kept going to work, didn't change his lifestyle and generally tried to act like an honest employee who had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately for him the couple involved who'd been living in a trailor park previously not only started spending large amounts of money but were actually dumb enough to go back to the bank they robbed with the money still in the wrapping it'd been put in and ask a different telller how much they could deposit before the bank became suspicious. Then there was the guy who cased a store for robbery by pretending to apply for a job they were advertising. Unfortunately for him he was not only caught on camera robbing them but had put his real name and address down on the job application.

@Sendaz
Hmmmm risky but I can see the temptation in doing that for a shot at a real corporate SIN/job to some people.