[Hobbes]

Side note-ish, but still related, would all law enforcement officers recognize all availability F items on sight? Let's say it's something less obvious than a machine gun, say, an HK XM30, which is basically an assault rifle with multiple configurations; if it's a throwback (so it doesn't have wireless for syncing back to a database for identification), would a random officer recognize it as an illegal weapon, given some assault rifles are legal? What if it was disassembled and stashed as parts amongst piles of scrap?

I mean, you can't get a license for it, since it's forbidden, but would the average officer know the difference between it and a legal assault rifle on sight? Would the officer be able to identify it while dismantled?

The couple of cops I know in real life are mildly gun nutty.  I'd say it's a fair chance that a corp security or lone star officer would have a chance at recognizing an unusual weapon.  They would for sure notice something that isn't like the low end junk the gangers and street thugs carry and then start questioning.

Got an "F" weapon?  Keep in the trunk of the car, or in a smuggling compartment.  Delta partial lower leg with Large Smuggling compartment will hold an SMG and isn't that expensive. 

[HaikenEdge]

Side note-ish, but still related, would all law enforcement officers recognize all availability F items on sight? Let's say it's something less obvious than a machine gun, say, an HK XM30, which is basically an assault rifle with multiple configurations; if it's a throwback (so it doesn't have wireless for syncing back to a database for identification), would a random officer recognize it as an illegal weapon, given some assault rifles are legal? What if it was disassembled and stashed as parts amongst piles of scrap?

I mean, you can't get a license for it, since it's forbidden, but would the average officer know the difference between it and a legal assault rifle on sight? Would the officer be able to identify it while dismantled?

The couple of cops I know in real life are mildly gun nutty.  I'd say it's a fair chance that a corp security or lone star officer would have a chance at recognizing an unusual weapon.  They would for sure notice something that isn't like the low end junk the gangers and street thugs carry and then start questioning.

Got an "F" weapon?  Keep in the trunk of the car, or in a smuggling compartment.  Delta partial lower leg with Large Smuggling compartment will hold an SMG and isn't that expensive. 

Right now, the only smuggling compartment for vehicles is rated for either human-sized living passengers, or troll-sized ones. Wish there was already a book for riggers, so there'd be information on smuggling compartments for non-living cargo.

[Reaver]

If it can hold a person......

[HaikenEdge]

It can hold guns, I know, but they're also a wee-bit expensive, given that they have to be fitted to let people survive without suffocation, while still providing enough protection against scanners and searches.

[demion]

Licenses cover "Restricted" gear, so anything with an R.  F gear is always illegal.  Although, how or why megacorps manufacture "F" gear is an interesting question since RAW nobody can ever buy it.  Note that things like Cyberspurs and hand Razors are "F" same as your FN P93.  So anywhere you can't go with your FN P93 you can't go with your cyber spurs.

Thats not entirely true. RAW doen't say "nobody can ever buy it". Instead RAW means "no chummer, who is not in a crisis or military area can ever buy it" - or so I think. AND  "nobody who is not from an important company and has special rulings/contracts for its forces with the gouvernment can ever buy it".

And the second cause is what I was talking about. Faking to be from an companys special forces. And then you "answer" my question with

*shrug*  It's a silly game fiat that PCs can't have a fake license for "F" gear, because, obviously such licenses exist.  Because the gear was manufactured, and the people that manufacture and sell said gear also control the licensing.

Thats exactly what got me asking - is it really so? Or is a rating 6 license enough? The statements would suggest, that its a case for a houserule - the rules say, no player can have a license for F rated gear.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

This is where the developers have to pause and look at several things.  Do they want to get more in-depth - 'crunchy' - on what's permissible in a high-rated fake ID and license, or do they want to keep it simple and leave such things up to the GM?  Do they want to build towards a 'standard' game of Shadowrun, and give hints and suggestions on how to make things more upper/lower-tier, or do they want to try to delineate those sorts of things?

Licenses and such have been a very vague area for SR for a long time, and there have been numerous home-grown constructs for more realistic fake (or 'actual') IDs, small-corporation-building (in part to give credence for those IDs), and that sort of thing.  I've done one myself.  A Fake ID as described in standard 5e SR, however, does not reflect a 'high security' background, because getting information into the standard SIN databases (and supporting information into the right places) is enough of a bitch.  The rating of a 'standard Fake ID' indicates the quality of its information - the depth of its consumer history, the accuracy of its identification information (right metatype, race, gender, age, voiceprints, fingerprints, retinal prints, genetic information - all 'within tolerances', of course), that sort of thing.  It does not enter into the 'well, this fake ID is for a high-ranking officer in Knight Errant's military division' side of things; a fake ID is typically for 'Joe Normal', one of the 60-70% of people who don't work (directly, at least) for a A+-rated corporation, who the local rent-a-cops might pull over because of a busted tail-light.  "I see you got a gun.  You got a permit for that, citizen?"

Licensing for Forbidden gear isn't controlled by the manufacturers; it's controlled by countries, or AA and AAA-rated corporations (which essentially are countries). Here's the rub: such licensing is never for an individual, but for a registered group or corporation.  Specifically, someone has pony up a huuuuge chunk of change for the bond, then set up and register their group as a valid mercenary group (or for Shadowrun, high-lethality bounty organization or security corporation).  For Seattle, depending on what you go with, that might have to be registered with the UCAS; if you want to leave town, you'd have to register with the Salish-Sidhe, the Cascade Crow, and/or Tir Tairngire.  Or you might need to set up with them cheerful fellas outta Lisbon, to wit the Mercenary ... board ... whatever they are.  And that chunk of change?  For carrying heavy (to wit, 'F') weaponry, you are gonna have to front a several-million-nuyen bond, and the moment someone who's registered with you goes 'off the res' that several million nuyen is going to be in serious jeopardy until and unless you can prove in a court of review that it wasn't your fault, and that you cooperated fully with the authorities of that jurisdiction to bring the ex-member-of-your-club to justice.

All this basically means that this ain't the purview of a standard Shadowrun game.

[demion]

that sounds reasonable

[Whiskeyjack]

Makes sense.

About the closest you might get is to have an actual valid Corp SIN (as in, the NQ, or to be given them by a corp you're running for, likely knowing that it is intended to get burned in the commission of the run) that at one point had some permissions, and then lie your way around why you might not still have them

Which should not at all be an easy lie to sell.

[firebug]

Thanks Wyrm, as always you're exceptional at explaining things.  That's the point I was trying to get across but wasn't able to.

[antaskidayo]

Side note-ish, but still related, would all law enforcement officers recognize all availability F items on sight? Let's say it's something less obvious than a machine gun, say, an HK XM30, which is basically an assault rifle with multiple configurations; if it's a throwback (so it doesn't have wireless for syncing back to a database for identification), would a random officer recognize it as an illegal weapon, given some assault rifles are legal? What if it was disassembled and stashed as parts amongst piles of scrap?

I mean, you can't get a license for it, since it's forbidden, but would the average officer know the difference between it and a legal assault rifle on sight? Would the officer be able to identify it while dismantled?

Would a decker be able to do something about the data being broadcasted and scanned by a scanner? like making it to be a different kind of a R-rated assault rifle instead.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Sure would.  Edit the RFID chip.  However, that isn't going to change the profile of the weapon, a recognition program for which (at least IMO) a decent cop shop would equip their people.

[antaskidayo]

Licensing for Forbidden gear isn't controlled by the manufacturers; it's controlled by countries, or AA and AAA-rated corporations (which essentially are countries). Here's the rub: such licensing is never for an individual, but for a registered group or corporation.  Specifically, someone has pony up a huuuuge chunk of change for the bond, then set up and register their group as a valid mercenary group (or for Shadowrun, high-lethality bounty organization or security corporation)

So if the group decides to form a group lifestyle and work under ARES shadow Ops, they could register as a mercenary unit( or just subcontract ) and If they get the contract/job through ARES then they can request temporary use of their F - weapons for that specific run/mission only . <--- Is that how its supposed to play out, and authorities would see their access granted for a classified mission on start date xxxx upto end date xxxx on the database?

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Except for the 'shadow ops' part, that's how it DOES work.  Take a look at the 'Queen Euphoria' adventure.  In that particular case, though, there's no 'group lifestyle' (and it's vastly more than a lifestyle cost, trust me) - you'd be registered independent contractors for Ares, or whatever other A+-rated corporation required a heavily-armed team.

And the mission would NOT be classified, because it would have to be very clearly delineated, with defined times and areas of operation.  "Going into abandoned factory site at 164 NW State St., Puyallup, to retrieve simsense star Euphoria.  Mission starting at 2000 hours, projected conclusion by 2200 hours."  This shit gets defined, if you're operating in civilized territory.

[Reaver]

Except for the 'shadow ops' part, that's how it DOES work.  Take a look at the 'Queen Euphoria' adventure.  In that particular case, though, there's no 'group lifestyle' (and it's vastly more than a lifestyle cost, trust me) - you'd be registered independent contractors for Ares, or whatever other A+-rated corporation required a heavily-armed team.

And the mission would NOT be classified, because it would have to be very clearly delineated, with defined times and areas of operation.  "Going into abandoned factory site at 164 NW State St., Puyallup, to retrieve simsense star Euphoria.  Mission starting at 2000 hours, projected conclusion by 2200 hours."  This shit gets defined, if you're operating in civilized territory.

And cleared by the civil authorities.

Your Ares provided permit means fuck all to Seattle, or the UCAS.

Sure, you could use your F-rated gear on Ares defined space with no problems... but the nanosecond you leave Ares property, you are breaking the Laws of where-ever you put your foot. Without their "Ok", you're just a heavily armed criminal.... even if you are the CFO of Ares!


Ain't extra-territority great? 

Now, the city/state is more likely to grant an operational permit to you, when the request for a permit is coming from an AA+ rated corp. But that is because they have a trail of liability right back to that AA+ Corp's door for any damages and deaths caused by the operation.

Which leads you back into why these weapons are F rated to begin with.

Take your "average" mini-gun. If you miss, how many rounds did you just fire? And where EXACTLY did those rounds go?? Just cause you missed your target doesn't mean the bullets magically stopped..... they continue on their path. Through walls, doors, appliances, innocent children.....

Food for thought.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Essentially true, and pretty much what I was getting at.  Once Ares (or whomever) gets your signature on the dotted line, however, they're going to fast-track the request, take it to their pocket judge or city official, and as long as the target isn't another corporation - or that they have clear evidence of malfeasance or illegal opposition (such as in the Euphoria case) - the judge/official is likely to rubber-stamp it as soon as (or five minutes after, which is just as good) it crosses their desk.  And remember, so long as the weapons are inside a corporate-marked transport, they're still not illegal; they're only illegal once you step outside onto non-extraterritorial ground, or if you fire anything that makes it off extraterritorial grounds.

Honestly, look at the Euphoria contract.  Genius.