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Cold Sim Vs Hot Sim: A Decker Question

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WNxTyr4el

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« on: <08-24-15/1235:46> »
Just curious about cold sim and hot sim. For a decker to enter the Matrix, do they have to jack in to an access point of some kind or is it where they just use their deck and go full Hot Sim VR?

Can anyone explain these concepts to me?
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #1 on: <08-24-15/1259:42> »
They jack in to their deck.  The deck then connects with the matrix or the device being hacked usually wirelessly. 

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #2 on: <08-24-15/1259:51> »
They don't have to jack in to a particular physical place. They just need a device with a simsense module with hot sim enabled (deck, commlink) and a way to get DNI (data jack, trodes). Cold and hot sim are just different modes of VR.

Personally I don't think hot sim is worth it compared to just AR. Less risk of being brain fried. In 4e, AR decking was much slower but that is not the case in 5th.
Playability > verisimilitude.

WNxTyr4el

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« Reply #3 on: <08-24-15/1329:09> »
So what scenarios would one want to actually go into the matrix as opposed to just using AR?

And what scenarios would there be for using cold sim or hot sim?
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Reaver

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« Reply #4 on: <08-24-15/1342:44> »
Basically, any time that speed is a factor.

The trade offs are more speed for a higher instance of damage.

As you move from AR to Hot sim, you gain a bonus to initiative, but also run a higher risk of actual physical damage (as opposed to just getting bricked)
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WNxTyr4el

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« Reply #5 on: <08-24-15/1347:49> »
So you can do the same things in cold sim as you can in hot sim but it's just slower?

And VR is always hot sim?
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Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <08-24-15/1355:07> »
If I remember right, VR is usually cold Sim.

You have to get an (illegal) hot sim module to run hot sim VR.


But, what SR character doesn't have illegal gear?
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Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Zweiblumen

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« Reply #7 on: <08-24-15/1359:35> »
HotSim also gives you a +2 die pool to Matrix actions.
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WNxTyr4el

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« Reply #8 on: <08-24-15/1403:30> »
So jacking into your deck automatically puts you in hot sim, correct? 

I'm really just trying to get ideas of everything so I can get an idea of how to play my character when j hopefully get s game lol
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FasterN8

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« Reply #9 on: <08-24-15/1446:03> »
Not necessarily.  Cyberdecks and RCCs are able to go hot sim by default, but commlinks need an illegal modification to their sim module to allow it. 

Whenever you go VR, you can choose cold sim or hot sim (if able).  For routine stuff that people do all the time, (i.e. no opposed tests) like visiting a virtual bar or conference room or visiting a virtual furniture store, cold sim will be more than sufficient.  For shadowrunners that are likely to be subverting normal security protocols (opposed tests) the +2 dice pool bonus is invaluable and worth the risk in my opinion.  So generally, Deckers will default to hot sim because even matrix perception and matrix search get those 2 extra dice.  But nobody has to go hot sim if they don't want to.

Given the 3D6 initiative that comes with cold sim, you have a pretty good chance of getting into the 20s on initiative and therefore getting 3 actions in that combat turn.  If you go hot sim, your initiative dice are 4D6 and you're almost certain to get past the 20s on your initiative and depending on how high your Intuition + Data Processing gets, you may have a reasonable chance to score 31+ giving you 4 actions per combat turn.

The risks come in 2 areas:  First, IC and deckers that are using biofeedback attacks will do damage to your meat body in addition to your deck.  That biofeedback damage is physical if you're in hot sim, or stun if you're cold sim.   Plus any time your deck gets bricked you take 6 biofeedback damage (resisted with Willpower only since your deck is dead).  If you were hotsim when you got dumped, the biofeedback damage is again physical or stun if you were cold sim.  You never suffer biofeedback damage when in AR.

« Last Edit: <08-24-15/1448:36> by FasterN8 »

ProfGast

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« Reply #10 on: <08-24-15/1520:18> »
Not necessarily.  Cyberdecks and RCCs are able to go hot sim by default, but commlinks need an illegal modification to their sim module to allow it. 
Control Rigs (not RCCs) and cyberdecks are listed as automatically containing a sim module (the device needed to go into VR.)  To the best of my knowledge it does NOT specify whether or not said sim module is hot-sim modded or not and in general the mod costs an extra nuyen and some availability.  Kinda up to your GM on that ruling

On the other hand I believe headware commlinks and decks come with sim modules with hot sim enabled but I'm AFB atm so I'll have to check later.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #11 on: <08-24-15/1557:05> »
It's not slower action wise. You just have easier access to higher initiative in hot sim than in AR though you can make it up easily with ware and drugs. It's just cheaper to have higher initiative and more potential passes in VR, at a baseline.

There is no functional time difference unlike in 4e, where AR took hours and VR took seconds.

I never consider +2 dice worth the risk of physical biofeedback from cybercombat. Dice adders are a dime a dozen. Or if your success is so dependent on +2 dice you're doing it wrong.

« Last Edit: <08-24-15/1559:17> by Whiskeyjack »
Playability > verisimilitude.

FasterN8

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« Reply #12 on: <08-24-15/1728:23> »
Not necessarily.  Cyberdecks and RCCs are able to go hot sim by default, but commlinks need an illegal modification to their sim module to allow it. 
Control Rigs (not RCCs) and cyberdecks are listed as automatically containing a sim module (the device needed to go into VR.)  To the best of my knowledge it does NOT specify whether or not said sim module is hot-sim modded or not and in general the mod costs an extra nuyen and some availability.  Kinda up to your GM on that ruling

On the other hand I believe headware commlinks and decks come with sim modules with hot sim enabled but I'm AFB atm so I'll have to check later.

Quite right on the Control Rig, and you're right, nowhere does it say that the included sim module is hot-sim capable, however the Rigger section definitely refers to hot sim as a possibility so I think everyone just assumes it for Control Rigs.  Headware commlinks are the same way - the description says they're included, but not that they're hot-sim capable.  I'm not sure if there's a consensus on these being hot-sim capable, but I would say no since it's probably a more consumer focused piece of cyberware.

As far as cyberdecks go, it says right in the description of cyberdecks that they "include illegal hot-sim modules right out of the box".

ProfGast

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« Reply #13 on: <08-24-15/1812:21> »
Quite right on the Control Rig, and you're right, nowhere does it say that the included sim module is hot-sim capable, however the Rigger section definitely refers to hot sim as a possibility so I think everyone just assumes it for Control Rigs.  Headware commlinks are the same way - the description says they're included, but not that they're hot-sim capable.  I'm not sure if there's a consensus on these being hot-sim capable, but I would say no since it's probably a more consumer focused piece of cyberware.

As far as cyberdecks go, it says right in the description of cyberdecks that they "include illegal hot-sim modules right out of the box".
Ah, I misremembered.  Thanks for looking that up.  Like I said, for the unclear ones it's pretty much GM fiat at this point on which one has hot sim or not.  Just remember for items WITHOUT hotsim, the availabilty hit may make certain items out of starting availability range.

living

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« Reply #14 on: <08-24-15/1910:06> »
I never consider +2 dice worth the risk of physical biofeedback from cybercombat. Dice adders are a dime a dozen. Or if your success is so dependent on +2 dice you're doing it wrong.

2 dices are to dices... 2/3 of a hit... the other question is what is the danger of physical biofeedback dmg? sure its the difference unconsious/dead. but if you get one of this, you r doing it wrong ;)