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Ware that gets less love than you think it deserves

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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #15 on: <08-20-15/0304:02> »
What do people think of Skillwires? I like the idea but in practice I can't think of myself wanting access to a ton of activesofts required to make them worth it, as most of the time I think I'd just want knowsofts and linguasofts which are covered with just a Skilljack, and maybe a set of hardwires for a secondary or tertiary combat skill at 6 or something, one that I have no desire ever to buy with karma.

Anyone done cool things with Skillwires? Anyone think MBW 2 is more worth it than Wored Reflexes 2 + REA Enhancers 3? Same average initiative, plus Skillwires, but you lose out on 3 REA for defense tests.
Playability > verisimilitude.

Novocrane

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« Reply #16 on: <08-20-15/0312:06> »
Quote
Anyone think MBW 2 is more worth it than Wored Reflexes 2 + REA Enhancers 3?
Currently playing a rigger, so I'm kinda disappointed that MBW wasn't the upgrade it used to be.

Marcus

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« Reply #17 on: <08-21-15/0059:16> »
What do people think of Skillwires? I like the idea but in practice I can't think of myself wanting access to a ton of activesofts required to make them worth it, as most of the time I think I'd just want knowsofts and linguasofts which are covered with just a Skilljack, and maybe a set of hardwires for a secondary or tertiary combat skill at 6 or something, one that I have no desire ever to buy with karma.

Anyone done cool things with Skillwires? Anyone think MBW 2 is more worth it than Wored Reflexes 2 + REA Enhancers 3? Same average initiative, plus Skillwires, but you lose out on 3 REA for defense tests.

I love skillwires in theory and I'm stoked at the concept of Skillsoft networks. The costing remains the issue. The balance debate is understandable but it need to be considered differently. Your not going to use skills wires to get skills your ever going to run in comparison tests, your just looking for base success, and a the penalty of no edge should really make low rating skillwires much, much cheaper then they are.

MBW 2 is just to essence intensive to seriously consider in  a starting game (and that laying aside the availability issue) , which would make it difficult to get anything but a very long running game. MBW 1 isn't a terrible option if you aren't looking for maximum possible effectiveness build.   So in a Prime Run. game (Avail 15 starting) you could run Alpha MBW 1 along with biocomp for 2.1 and a paltry 48k and a 5 pt quality, which is 1/3 of Wired 2. You can make a little more effective given the wording of it is it doesn't stack with reaction enhancers, so you can still use Cerebellum boosters (which runs another 50k .3E).

If your ready to go into Cerebellum boosters you can get an extra +1 int, which totals to +2 defense (total 12), and +5 to init. Meaning that you can easily hit Init 15+1d6. Which is decent. No its not the 14+3d6 you could get from wired (Which runs you a cool 175k and 2.88E assuming biocomp). But mbw1 also only ran you 2.4 essence and 98k Which is basically half of what wired would. It also leaves you open to delta Mbw3 when you reach a point where such a thing is possible.

 48k and 2.1E for +4 Init and skillwire 2 ain't bad honestly. In a  non-prime game it only a little worse, 2.4 instead of 2.1 with non-alpha, and the biocomp quality. So 40k and 2.4 E for +4 init and skillwires 2.

There is no doubt from the combat stand point that 175k and 2.88 for 14 Defense and 14+3d6 is a better option. Which will have an average init 24.5 vs 18.5. But for a combat secondary 18.5 is respectable, and the price in terms of cash is fairly low; Essence wise it's still higher then I'd prefer but it adds a deep utility options in terms of skillwires.

« Last Edit: <08-21-15/0101:25> by Marcus »
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Rooks

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« Reply #18 on: <08-21-15/1240:05> »
Sorry to get slightly off topic, but Made Man, is a Quality I really feel is really undervalued. It can do so many interesting things from the stand point of background and negotiation. Also organized crime offers the very best justification for the really wacky attack methods, Car Bombs, poisoned drinks, concrete shoes, poison lipstick call girls, all kinds of weird creative stuff.
Take that and Electronic Witness to cover your day job requirement

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #19 on: <08-21-15/1306:36> »
Sorry to get slightly off topic, but Made Man, is a Quality I really feel is really undervalued. It can do so many interesting things from the stand point of background and negotiation. Also organized crime offers the very best justification for the really wacky attack methods, Car Bombs, poisoned drinks, concrete shoes, poison lipstick call girls, all kinds of weird creative stuff.
Take that and Electronic Witness to cover your day job requirement
What book is this in?
Playability > verisimilitude.

Kincaid

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« Reply #20 on: <08-21-15/1318:33> »
There is a zero percent chance that any of my characters would willingly operate with someone with Electronic Witness and Day Job.  (Ele. Witness is in Data Trails, by the way.)  That combination risks a bullet behind the ear at many tables.
Killing so many sacred cows, I'm banned from India.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #21 on: <08-21-15/1353:08> »
Oh, that's the one where you're pretty much putting every job you do on youtube, isn't it?
Playability > verisimilitude.

Novocrane

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« Reply #22 on: <08-21-15/1832:17> »
Oh, that's the one where you're pretty much putting every job you do on youtube, isn't it?
I don't recall anything that says you have to sell it whole cloth and unedited.

It's also one of the few situations where I might take an augmentation bundle. At that point, why not?

Marcus

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« Reply #23 on: <08-22-15/0029:16> »
E witness  makes no-sense with Made Man imo. Why would you blog videos of you and your crew committing crimes?
Can you explain further what you mean?
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blunt

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« Reply #24 on: <08-22-15/0215:19> »
Sensors!  P.446.
Handheld Housing 3 Capacity
Capacity 3 x 100 = 300  nuyen, Sensor Array Rating 3 =3000 nuyen, Sensor Functions 3, (Camera, Ultrasound, Motion Sensor)
Don't get snuck up on by the Invisible troll  bug spirit vampire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKnfIsvxYo

Micro-cameras!  Capacity 1, 100 nuyen.  Threshold 3 + perception modifiers.   Might let you know if someone is breaching your perimeter.
Agents!  Have them use Matrix Perception, to follow you, as you get picked up by facial recognition, on the matrix, and try to cover your tracks.
RFID tags!  Plant one on your Johnson!  Don't do that Prisoners dilemma BS, without an edge!
the best way to defeat a monster, is to give it what it wants, and then run like hell.

Marcus

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« Reply #25 on: <08-22-15/1055:19> »
Sensor are indeed very under appreciated.
Given the radiation issues in some places you would think more characters would have giger counters.
« Last Edit: <08-22-15/1058:31> by Marcus »
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Novocrane

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« Reply #26 on: <08-22-15/1927:22> »
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Sensor Array Rating 3 =3000 nuyen, Sensor Functions 3, (Camera, Ultrasound, Motion Sensor)
While it is up to eight functions per sensor array (and rating goes from 2-8), they stop short of saying 'only [rating] functions per sensor array'.
« Last Edit: <08-23-15/0558:57> by Novocrane »

blunt

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« Reply #27 on: <08-22-15/2117:49> »
p.445
Sensor array: This sensor package includes up to
eight functions listed under Sensor Functions.

Single sensor: This is a sensor that can do only one
function listed under Sensor Functions.

I understand  this to mean, I could put up to 3 Sensor Functions, on a hand held device, that has a Max Sensor Rating of 3, and that has a capacity of 3.


P.417
Capacity: Some sensor packages and cyberware can be equipped with a
range of subsystems. A Capacity value is listed for these, indicating the
maximum amount of “slots” worth of accessories the item can hold.
If the Capacity is listed in brackets, it’s the cost of that subsystem or
accessory, or the number of slots that item takes up. Some cyberware
items with a Capacity cost can also be installed as standalone items
(taking up Essence) rather than subsystems (taking up Capacity);
if both costs are listed, only one applies, depending on whether you
installed it in another item or in yourself.

the best way to defeat a monster, is to give it what it wants, and then run like hell.

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #28 on: <08-23-15/0537:11> »
Wait, I've seen this debate before.  The fall apart point is that a hand held housing has a certain capacity that is smaller than what is needed for an array.  The other part is whether capacity is interchangeable with other gear. I.e. can you stick an array in a helmet, or better yet can you stick it in a high rating cybereye?

Novocrane

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« Reply #29 on: <08-23-15/0557:24> »
Quote
A Capacity value is listed for these, indicating the maximum amount of “slots” worth of accessories the item can hold.
Sensor Arrays are missing Capacity, only having [Capacity]. Even if you took this value, that would contradict the 'up to 8 functions' with a flat 6.