[jim1701]

Based on the discussion here.  I thought maybe a thread discussing just how matrix perception worked would be in order. 

[Xenon]

It works good

[Zweiblumen]

It works good

Xenon won the internet

[Sendaz]

It works good

Xenon won the internet

Xenon won the Matrix, Internet is so 2004

As for Matrix perception, it is taking some wrapping one's head around because it is different than just seeing something, it's interpreting it.

I look forward to the no doubt lively debate on this as any insights are always welcome.

[Xenon]

...it is taking some wrapping ...

Lets start off with Wrapper cyberprogram then, shall we.

Change Icon will only change the aesthetics of an Icon. The purpose of the Icon must still be obvious even at a first glance. The device icon of a vehicle will still look like some sort of transportation. If you change your Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit device icon into a chariot (complete with reins to drive the vehicle) people that don't physically see your vehicle and just see your device icon in the matrix might be fooled into thinking that you have an Ares Mobmaster riot control vehicle rather than a Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit (or they might just think that you changed the appearance of the icon).

Running Wrapper cyberprogram while using Change Icon let you override the icon protocol. A vehicle for example no longer need to look like a transportation. It can look like a weapon or a toaster or whatever. The purpose of the icon is no longer obvious at a first glace. Anyone that have any reason to doubt that the icon is what it looks like can spend a hit from a matrix perception test to find out what the icon really is. Anyone that actually see your physical Chrysler-Nissan Jackrabbit will still see and can still interact with it's device icon - even if the look of the icon is illegal and doesn't even look like a transportation device.

[Bulshock]

My originally intended post is below, but Wrapper is a good place to start.  For seeing through it, how do you run it?  It only mentions back to Matrix Perception, but not how it interacts with it.  I.e. does it act like you are Running Silent and is Opposed?  Or is it just a question they can ask on the Matrix Perception test (i.e. 'Are there any Icons that have been changed by Wrapper?' or a less general one 'Is this Icon changed by Wrapper?')

Alright, so part of what brought this up (from the other Thread) was how GOD/Demi-GOD's are able to limit what Silent Running Icons are visible, namely it's mentioned that they can tailor their Matrix Perception to exclude RFID tags.  What, if any, ways are there for those that aren't a Demi-GOD to do that?  While Demi-GOD's are statted up, it's accepted that they can do things that others can't with the Matrix (such as the OS smackdown).  If others can't do that, then we have the problem of RFID stealth tags protecting gear for those that aren't Hackers.  If others can, then that means that Hacker PC's should reasonably be able to as well.  If you can tailor it to not look for specific things, then by contrast you should be able to only look for specific things (i.e. Sensors, Cyberware, Weapons, Personas, etc.) as I can't think of a good reason for them to not be able to exclude things other then RFID tags as any broad type of Icon shouldn't have special exceptions for spotting them, except maybe things like Personas.    If you allow others then Demi-GOD's to tailor their Matrix Perception, how do you deal with that with regards to PC's doing it?  If you don't, how do you deal with the Stealth Tag issue?

[jim1701]

Wrapper allows you to perform a Change Icon and change an icon to one that is not normally used by that device/persona.  Change Icon specifically says it has no impact on the results of a Matrix perception test.  It would only fool someone who perceived the altered icon in the matrix without actually performing a matrix perception test. 

[Bulshock]

Thank you, Jim, I had missed that bit in the book on it.

[Xenon]

As for Spotting

All wireless devices have a device icon on a grid in the matrix. Even if the device is slaved to a host the actual icon will still be out on a grid. Think of the device icon as an augmented reality digital overlay over the physical item. The icon of a device is very obvious. If you have a physical device within 100 meters then you are automatically also within reach to interact with it's device icon. But even if the device is further away and out of your reach it is still easy to get within reach of it's icon(in fact since the threshold on the simple test is 1 it is about as difficult as it is to notice a neon sign, running crowd, yelling or gunfire would normal perception). It is possible to reduce the traffic from a wireless device and the matrix, but not stop it entirely. The device will still have it's matrix icon out on a grid, it's icon will just be a bit harder to reach. If you have a device in front of you but don't automatically get to interact with its icon then the device is probably limiting it's traffic to the matrix. To get within reach of the icon of the silent running device you take an opposed matrix perception test.

The act of Spotting is something you need to with all icons that don't let you interact with them directly. Once you Spot an icon (that was either physically far away of from a device that was set to limit it's matrix traffic) the icon will continue to be within your reach until you or it reboot or until it bend the matrix to hide from you. After you Spot an icon you can now interact with it as normal.

Matrix perception can also be used to spot devices that run silent around you that you didn't even knew existed. This can be done by asking the GM if there are any icons that are trying to hide in the vicinity. Next step is then to spot each individual icon one by one with opposing tests.... However, this is only used when you have no idea that there are hidden icons is out there to begin with. For example; if a hidden icon successfully use an attack matrix action on you then you can try to get within reach of that specific icon directly with an opposed matrix perception test no matter where in the world the attack came from. Another example; If someone is calling you then you can try to Spot that specific icon. If the caller is in the vicinity then you can automatically interact with it. If not you need to take a perception test. If he is running silent then the matrix perception test will be opposed.

[Xenon]

As for Filtering.

Matrix perception is all about filtering. You can put every single icon on the matrix in your field of view but the number of icons will be staggering. Every electric device in the world have an icon. Every SR5 File (which is more like a 2015 directory really) will have an icon. Every person in the world will have an icon. Then you have all the agents, sprites and hosts that also have icons of their own. And between all the icons there will be an irregular pattern of data streams zipping back and fourth. Your meat perception is limited by stuff such as line of sight, smog and the curve of the earth. Your matrix perception can be used to look at the entire matrix at once, blocking your entire meat perception with zillions of matrix icons and data streams from all corners of the world.

To make all this manageable you filter out icons that are less interesting for you (you don't really want to see an icon for every single music album out there, right?). You can't really interact with data streams so you filter out them first. You can choose to merge all icons in a person's personal area network into one single PAN icon. If you wish. You can also choose to not merge icons you think are extra important. Like device icons of weapons. If you for example are only interested in just PAN icons then you can choose to filter out all icons that are not part of a PAN icon. Many devices use reduced matrix traffic and you normally don't see them either. Maybe you are only interested in weapon device icons? Finding the correct icon that you wish to interact with can be similar to a game of 20 questions.

Icons that are physically not close are probably also less interesting and there will also be more noise affecting them so they will become dim and flickering because of this. The same goes for devices with reduced matrix traffic. They all got an icon on a grid, it just don't shine so bright that you automatically can interact with them. To interact with an icon that is not crystal clear and obvious you need to first successfully focus a second or so. This whole process is called Spotting.

Sometimes you might be extra interested in devices that have reduced matrix traffic (most security devices for example). One way of doing it is to set your filter to only show you devices in the vicinity of the antenna of the device you used to form your persona on (your commlink). The matrix sky goes dark as all hosts vanish from your field of view. The matrix horizon goes dark as all icons beyond 100 meters are filtered away. Then you filter out all icons that already have a bright and shiny icon. This is the majority of icons around you. Left are the vauge device icons of devices within 100 meters that have reduced matrix traffic. Next you also filter out all the silent running  icons that you already Spotted. You are now left with a [hopefully] smaller number of icons that are dim, flickering and out of reach. Hard to make out. Hard to focus on. To get here you normally just ask the GM "Are there any silent running icons in the vicinity?"

If you have no idea what icon you are trying to find other than that they have reduced matrix traffic then you can always try to Spot them one by one, but if you for example are walking down a corridor in a hostile facility you might be more interested in cameras, maglocks and sensors that you are about to walk into or you might be primary interested in devices that are not stationary (since this often indicate a guard... or a drone).

[Xenon]

Disclaimer;  The book is deliberately vauge on this subject (there is not much RAW to guide nor limit) so it will mostly be up to individual tables how they manage this. The above explanations might or might not be what the authors intended, but my interpretation does not break any existing rules and they kinda make sense (at least to me). I have been given the SR5 matrix a lot of though

[Xenon]

Wrapper allows you to perform a Change Icon and change an icon to one that is not normally used by that device/persona.  Change Icon specifically says it has no impact on the results of a Matrix perception test.  It would only fool someone who perceived the altered icon in the matrix without actually performing a matrix perception test.

Precisely!

The icon protocol dictates that you should know it's basic purpose by just glancing at the icon. Without spending time to actually look at the icon. A vehicle will have an icon that is some kind of transportation. It doesn't matter if the device is so close, bright and obvious that you can interact with it directly or if it is so dim, flickering and hard to spot because it is physically far away. Just by glancing at the icon you will know it is some kind of vehicle.

With Wrapper the icon no longer need to follow protocol. The vehicle no longer need to have an icon that have anything to do with transportation. It can look like a music album. It doesn't matter if the icon is so close, bright and obvious that you can interact with it directly or if it is so dim, flickering and hard to spot because it is physically far away. Just by glancing at the icon, without spending the time to take a closer look, you will think it is a music album.

Now, if you have reason to suspect that the icon is not a music album (or if you are just paranoid in general) then you can take a closer look to find out what type of icon you are really looking at. This will not actually change the look of the icon but you will know that the icon is a vehicle and not a music album.

This goes both ways. If you for example physically see the physical vehicle you also see that it's icon is breaking protocol. In this case you don't even need to take time to inspect it. Just with a glance you know that the vehicle use an icon that look like a music album.

Wrapper also only change the look of the icon, not its functionality. If you have your mark on the icon, a sleaze attribute and some knowledge in electronic warfare then you can remote control the vehicle to open the trunk - even if the icon look like a music album.... You can not use your computer skills to copy the album. That only work on music albums that really are file icons, not on device icons that look like file icons.

If you wish to set your matrix filter to only show vehicles in the vicinity then you will see a bunch of various transportation icons and one icon that look like a music album. Change Icon will not change the outcome of a matrix perception test.

[Xenon]

Alright, so part of what brought this up (from the other Thread) was how GOD/Demi-GOD's are able to limit what Silent Running Icons are visible, namely it's mentioned that they can tailor their Matrix Perception to exclude RFID tags. 

I don't see why this would be limited to GOD in any way.

Devices that have limited matrix traffic still have an icon in the matrix just like all other wireless devices, you just can't interact with them before you actually Spot them.

If you set your filters to exclude RFID tags I see no reason why icons very far away or why icons of devices with reduced matrix activity should not be filtered out....?

If you can tailor it to not look for specific things, then by contrast you should be able to only look for specific things (i.e. Sensors, Cyberware, Weapons, Personas, etc.)

Yes, it is my reading you can do this. The matrix is very helpful at finding things for you, at least as long as you at least have an idea what you are looking for.

If you have no idea if there are any silent running icons out there then you just look for silent running icons in general and then get within reach of them one by one. If you set a very specific filter then you get a smaller result (or no hits at all), but even if you set a filter so tight that there is only one icon left it is still out of your reach. You still need to Spot the icon before you can interact with it.

You are not taking an opposed test to filter out the view until there are only devices with reduced matrix traffic left. That only take a single hit on a simple test. You are just taking an opposed test so the icon will no longer be out of reach for you (Spotting). Once it is within your reach you interact with it as normal. There is no test at all to glance at an icon to see how it looks and if the icon follow protocol this also mean you don't take a test to know it's basic purpose (transportation device, recording device, weapon device etc). There is no opposed test to observe an icon in detail once you Spot it - this is just a simple test.

[Bulshock]

That reading of it both makes things easier and harder in the Matrix.  It makes it so that running silent is no longer much of any protection at all against hackers (I filter so that only visual devices show up (Cybereyes, contacts, glasses, goggles, cameras, etc.)) one more action, and they then start bricking eyes, or other items.  Unless you're also a hacker.  At the same time it makes it easier for the hacker in the group to find what they need (either to attack or similar).  It makes it so that no one else should be running things Wireless, unless they have a massive amount of Matrix Defense (the Willpower 9-12 builds comes to mind).  If that makes sense, at least.

[Kincaid]

Using the sidebar on 235, I don't think I'd let things as granular as "cybereyes."  Augmentations, sure, but I go with the broad categories in the gear chapter.