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A few questions about CFD

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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #30 on: <08-10-15/1511:13> »
Did Pax have something to do with it?
Yes.
.. just that she was a the former Deus otaku and now she's a the dissonant technomancer who got herself into the R&D of the Dicken Program (Or was it Project Vulcan?)

Adjusted for proper emphasis.  ;)

Pax was the seven-Banded White (aka the head of Deus's otaku, and functionally Deus's right-hand girl) in the Arcology, and took it hardest (as is appropriate) when Deus said 'I'm outta here, see ya!!' and left them hanging.  She spearheaded research and submersion into the Dissonance, forming Ex Pacis; coded the Jormungandr dissonance worm that caused Crash 2.0; and is pretty much the lead individual when it comes to either Dissonance or anti-AI anything.
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Sendaz

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« Reply #31 on: <08-10-15/1515:06> »
Virtual-hell hath no fury like an otaku scorned. :P
Do you believe in a greater WIRELESS, an Invisible(WiFi) All Seeing(detecting those connected- at least if within 100'), All Knowing(all online data) Presence that we can draw upon for Wisdom(downloads & updates), Strength (wifi boni) and Comfort (porn) or do you turn your back on it  (Go Offline)?

Wakshaani

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« Reply #32 on: <08-10-15/2344:45> »
The big question is just how big of a nugget was her chunk of Deus. The big guy himself shattered during the Crash 2.0, so she's clearly been gathering up some of him, but how much was that, and how much is still out there?

CitizenJoe

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« Reply #33 on: <08-11-15/0157:34> »
Iris Firmworks is/was a Pueblo company that was courted by and then acquired by Renraku.  Iris did the Athabascan Grid which was a prototype wireless grid.  Deus clearly had access to that knowledge and it would have been easy for him to hide a copy in the wireless grid and wait out the second matrix crash.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #34 on: <08-11-15/0230:36> »
Clearly.
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Lorebane24

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« Reply #35 on: <08-11-15/0945:11> »
So why would Pax salvage and rebuild Deus if she was betrayed by him and she's so anti-AI?

Considering the fact of Deus's (apparently partial) return, though, and some of the info in the Lockdown book, would there be any chance that those rare head cases where the Deus personality wins out decide to start finishing the rebuild?  Maybe dumping a bunch of Deus-infected nanites into the Harbor Guide system and booting up all 25 servers?
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #36 on: <08-11-15/1022:24> »
You're assuming you have all the information about Deus and Pax.  Why would an AI flake out and go rogue in the first place.  I've heard the party line that it felt betrayed by the kill switch, but that's a human reaction, not an AI response. 

Wakshaani

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« Reply #37 on: <08-11-15/1138:53> »
So why would Pax salvage and rebuild Deus if she was betrayed by him and she's so anti-AI?

My guess is that she loved having turned the table on him and keeping him in a "bottle" where she could lord over him was a vengeful thing.

How this then gets to, "In fact, to SHOW you how much I hate you, I'm going to inject you into the body of a dragon! MWU-hahahahaa!" is one I don't know. I mean, Evil Overlord moment, right? Binding him to, say, a toaster? Way less dangerous than something that could swallow you whole.

But, well, PAX be crazy yo, so who knows? Maybe she's back on his side? "Oh seductive Deus-in-a-Bottle, how I regret stripping you from the world you once new, and now, tarpped as you are without face or form, our love cannot be! But ... I have a plan..."

...

I got nuthin'.

Beta

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« Reply #38 on: <08-11-15/1215:59> »
To me there is a big question about how much of Deus she has?  Given the way that things played out, it seems to me more likely that she had a bunch of fragments of his programming, and may or may not know if they could combine to more-or-less rebuild the original thing.  But throw some of those into the mix to screw up another AI?  After all, what else had proven ability to do this sort of thing, that could result in screwing up the Cerberus download?  (I don't have all the info on her, but from what I've read, I could imagine her not being crazy about the idea of an AI getting downloaded into a dragon's body, even if the AI may have come from the dragon in the first place?).

But honestly, I found that to be the weakest link in the whole plot.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #39 on: <08-12-15/0224:10> »
Well, I said this elsewhere, but since CitJoe is porting over his 'that's a human response, not an AI response' bit, I guess I should port over my responses, etc.

Why would an AI flake out and go rogue in the first place.  I've heard the party line that it felt betrayed by the kill switch, but that's a human reaction, not an AI response.

CitJoe, once again, we OOCly as-players-and-GameMasters know - definitively - why Deus did what it did.  Period.  Please continue to preface all such 'well, fifteen years of Shadowrun history and out-of-character information is wrong' with what you started to do over on the other forums - 'I think', and 'In my game', and similar such things.  Deus felt betrayed to his electronic core - period.  End of explanation.  Opinion otherwise, but please keep prefacing all your conspiracy theories with such things that aren't going to lead the poor newbies astray.  When we're talking canon, acknowledge the party line.

So why would Pax salvage and rebuild Deus if she was betrayed by him and she's so anti-AI?
My guess is that she loved having turned the table on him and keeping him in a "bottle" where she could lord over him was a vengeful thing.
To me there is a big question about how much of Deus she has?  Given the way that things played out, it seems to me more likely that she had a bunch of fragments of his programming ... (clipped for space)

Beta essentially has the key, here - it is unlikely, <i>very</i> unlikely in my opinion, that Pax has any significant portion of Deus's actual code.  Considering her competency with coding, I find it far more likely that, being embedded in Project Vulcan as she was, she was able to examine up-front the level of code that is required <i>at this time</i> for an ElInt.  It's canon that she has, in the past, done some serious up-close work on AIs to screw them up and pervert them into Dissonance carriers.  I think that, given her unique position of independence and playing both sides against each other so that neither of them get to look over her shoulder, she snagged a well-torn-up AI, wrenched its code around until the thing resembled (in a mental state) the 'I must get free / crush my enemies' psychology of the AI Formerly Known As Deus, and created its own 'print run' of CFD nanites, to be mixed with that of Cerebus / Eliohann just before or during the massive onslaught being used to 're-implant' him back into his brain-dead body.

As for why - consider the likelihood of anti-AI responses if it's 'made known' that the worst AI in the universe, Deus, was a part of this whole thing.  Makes perfect sense to me.

Considering the fact of Deus's (apparently partial) return, though, and some of the info in the Lockdown book, would there be any chance that those rare head cases where the Deus personality wins out decide to start finishing the rebuild?  Maybe dumping a bunch of Deus-infected nanites into the Harbor Guide system and booting up all 25 servers?

I would personally say not - simply because it ain't the real Deus.  Current AI are at least one, and possibly several, degrees of magnitute less code-intensive than the Big Three, and there's a reason for that.
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #40 on: <08-12-15/0325:57> »
Hrmmm... let me check... yea, this is the forum for wild conspiracy theories.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #41 on: <08-12-15/0415:59> »
Conspiracy theories are fine, and you know I have no issue with you spouting off - so long as you don't claim that your version is the canon, or deny what's been behind-the-curtain detailed about the setting, due to you claiming that it's inaccurate, or 'unreliable narrator', or whatever - all of which are very, very valid in-game arguments.  I am totally fine with your wild hare-brained ideas, so long as you remember to draw a line between your theory and what the game canon is.
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Lorebane24

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« Reply #42 on: <08-12-15/0718:38> »
I would personally say not - simply because it ain't the real Deus.  Current AI are at least one, and possibly several, degrees of magnitute less code-intensive than the Big Three, and there's a reason for that.

That's actually sort of my point.  I was thinking of making this the climax of my campaign.  Deus is incomplete right now, but I wonder if it wouldn't be able to upgrade itself to what it used to be if it could cannibalize the Harbor Guide System (as suggested in Lockdown), and then get itself onto a wireless matrix and take over Boston, giving people a problem of a magnitude they haven't seen in decades.  It would still be confined to Boston because of the lockdown, though, so then it would be on the runners to find a way to put it down or put it back in its jar before the CC just decides to nuke the city.
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DeathStrobe

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« Reply #43 on: <08-12-15/0959:51> »
I disagree with Wyrm's inherents to canon because canon is flexible. By Wyrm's logic it HAS to be Deus because the OOC parts of Lockdown tell us it's Deus, not a fragment, not a puppet, but the real deal. But obviously that doesn't make any sense because Pax hates Deus. Could always be some kind of psychotropic conditioning that prevents Pax from being directly unloyal to Deus (after all Puck was the one to set off the crash worm). But it also doesn't make sense how Deus survived Crash 2.0, but whatever.

There is more then enough wiggle room in the canon for Citizen Joe's theory to work.

I'd also like to point out that the CFD nanites' AI personality exist in something similar to a Foundation as seen in Data Trails. And considering Foundations are made from the low level code that forms the wireless mesh of all mass distributed Matrix network, it's not exactly a stretch to assume that the wireless Matrix caused CFD.

psycho835

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« Reply #44 on: <08-12-15/1258:00> »
But, well, PAX be crazy yo, so who knows? Maybe she's back on his side? "Oh seductive Deus-in-a-Bottle, how I regret stripping you from the world you once new, and now, tarpped as you are without face or form, our love cannot be! But ... I have a plan..."
Need more laes. Hang on, I'll just note down what I was suppossed to write...

*few hours later...*

Well, I said this elsewhere, but since CitJoe is porting over his 'that's a human response, not an AI response' bit, I guess I should port over my responses, etc.

Why would an AI flake out and go rogue in the first place.  I've heard the party line that it felt betrayed by the kill switch, but that's a human reaction, not an AI response.

CitJoe, once again, we OOCly as-players-and-GameMasters know - definitively - why Deus did what it did.  Period.  Please continue to preface all such 'well, fifteen years of Shadowrun history and out-of-character information is wrong' with what you started to do over on the other forums - 'I think', and 'In my game', and similar such things.  Deus felt betrayed to his electronic core - period.  End of explanation.  Opinion otherwise, but please keep prefacing all your conspiracy theories with such things that aren't going to lead the poor newbies astray.  When we're talking canon, acknowledge the party line.

So why would Pax salvage and rebuild Deus if she was betrayed by him and she's so anti-AI?
My guess is that she loved having turned the table on him and keeping him in a "bottle" where she could lord over him was a vengeful thing.
To me there is a big question about how much of Deus she has?  Given the way that things played out, it seems to me more likely that she had a bunch of fragments of his programming ... (clipped for space)

Beta essentially has the key, here - it is unlikely, <i>very</i> unlikely in my opinion, that Pax has any significant portion of Deus's actual code.  Considering her competency with coding, I find it far more likely that, being embedded in Project Vulcan as she was, she was able to examine up-front the level of code that is required <i>at this time</i> for an ElInt.  It's canon that she has, in the past, done some serious up-close work on AIs to screw them up and pervert them into Dissonance carriers.  I think that, given her unique position of independence and playing both sides against each other so that neither of them get to look over her shoulder, she snagged a well-torn-up AI, wrenched its code around until the thing resembled (in a mental state) the 'I must get free / crush my enemies' psychology of the AI Formerly Known As Deus, and created its own 'print run' of CFD nanites, to be mixed with that of Cerebus / Eliohann just before or during the massive onslaught being used to 're-implant' him back into his brain-dead body.

As for why - consider the likelihood of anti-AI responses if it's 'made known' that the worst AI in the universe, Deus, was a part of this whole thing.  Makes perfect sense to me.

Considering the fact of Deus's (apparently partial) return, though, and some of the info in the Lockdown book, would there be any chance that those rare head cases where the Deus personality wins out decide to start finishing the rebuild?  Maybe dumping a bunch of Deus-infected nanites into the Harbor Guide system and booting up all 25 servers?

I would personally say not - simply because it ain't the real Deus.  Current AI are at least one, and possibly several, degrees of magnitute less code-intensive than the Big Three, and there's a reason for that.
I think I read a theory somewhere on this forum that the current AIs are made out of fragments of the Great Three. If that's the case, could Deus - if it's really him, or at least a fragment - recompile? This could result in an AI hunt, during which Deus cannibalizes his "descendants" to restore himself.
And while we are at it, Deus code incorporates part of Morgan's. Think Dodger would start hunting Deus?