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Neat combo?

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Medicineman

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« Reply #45 on: <07-24-15/0308:17> »
problem is cyberlimbs averaging has never been addressed even in past editions

thats not True
Averaging has been in SR4a at least.

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Cause you rarely average... you generally use the lowest stat involved.
only If You play Lasertag-Chess (Big Bang Theory) or soemthing similar difficult. For standard Action (like Unarmed Combat) you average between all Involved Limbs (I include the Torso too ;) )

with an average Dance
Medicineman
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Novocrane

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« Reply #46 on: <07-24-15/0446:52> »
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Giving the bonus to Str/Agi for 4 full limbs really only helps Movement & Physical Limit.
And averaging, when using 4 limbs + natural torso.

For what... Lifting?
I'm sure you can come up with more full body physical activities than that.

PJ

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« Reply #47 on: <07-24-15/0759:21> »
Technically, if you want to be realistic, unless your physical activity is specifically isolating a muscle group, you will always include your core (torso) in what you do.

Since it is not spelled out otherwise, I would use the average of arm/arm/leg/leg/torso for Physical Limit.  It makes no sense to me that someone with 4 cyberlimbs but a meat body wouldn't get some benefit from said limbs (yet still be hindered by his 'meat' torso).

As I think about it, I think the wording is ambiguous on purpose.  It allows enough room for individual interpretation of rules while still providing enough of a baseline to go by.

Xenon

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« Reply #48 on: <07-24-15/1117:34> »
...Cyberlegs don't change your base movement speed at all
It feel strange that your base movement is not calculated from the average agility of all limbs involved. Have this been clarified...?

It is clear that when you use a particular limb for a test you use the rating of that limb, but in all other cases (when you for example is not taking a test) you use the average value of all limbs involved in the task (they don't use the key word test here which might or might not be intended).

If all other cases include movement or not depend on if movement can be considered a task or not.

Sprinting is a skill test so at least this qualify as a task no matter how you read it.
- When you take a sprint test you use the average strength value of all limbs involved in the task.


As for the max aug of +4... I think they were asking about +4 to the limb (i.e. Enhancement 3 plus Redliner +2 for four limbs would be 5 and if that would be legal or if it would max at +4).
Cyberlimbs are intended to have attribute values of their own, independent from your natural rating. Without house rules in place you can customize cyberlimbs up all the way up to your metatype maximum value no matter what your current natural rating is. If your natural rating is low then your cyberlimbs can be customized to break the aug +4 limit even before you add enhancements.


Since it is not spelled out otherwise, I would use the average of arm/arm/leg/leg/torso for Physical Limit. 
It have been clarified that cyberlimbs does not alter your Physical Limit (in any direction).
« Last Edit: <07-24-15/1126:02> by Xenon »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #49 on: <07-24-15/1154:01> »
no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc

What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?

Rooks

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« Reply #50 on: <07-24-15/1227:27> »
no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc

What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?
Running shooting a gun lifting jumping throwing a punch (only thing for sure seems to be lockpicking) theres never been an official ruling on what you average do you just use the limbs stats or average or the lowest etc

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #51 on: <07-25-15/0025:16> »
no theres never been a side bar that lists what you use when when using what cyber limbs on what tests etc


What Tests are confusing you about which Limb Stats to use..?
Running shooting a gun lifting jumping throwing a punch (only thing for sure seems to be lockpicking) theres never been an official ruling on what you average do you just use the limbs stats or average or the lowest etc

You use arms for shooting, legs for jumping, arm for punching... Lifting seems to be the only thing that you'd probably need to average for since no matter how strong the Limbs are the sack in the middle is the weak point. Add in a cybertorso and you would go back to using Cyberlimb stats. Hence my confusion on what was confusing you. I've been pretty harsh about the severe lack of Crunch that's being overwhelmed by Fluff in this edition (and I fucking HATE CFD!!!! Which doesn't make it better) but even I wouldn't be calling for fully articulated tables for what effects what. I don't mind making some common sense calls on how the Rules are applied, I just want the Rules to be concise & non-contradictory.

Rooks

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« Reply #52 on: <07-25-15/0147:22> »
ya but if Im just using a machine pistol and I have maxed out cyber arm do I just use that one? what if it was an SMG?

Bulshock

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« Reply #53 on: <07-25-15/0209:06> »
Xenon, what I meant was +5 to the Cyberlimb.  It's never stated if the Cyberlimb has it's own Augmented Maximum, which is where I was talking about.  Where has it been clarified that they don't affect Physical Limit?  Is it in an Errata document?  I know I have heard this before, and could of sworn I had seen it, but I can't seem to find it either in my updated PDF of the Core book or in the Errata PDF I have for it.

Rooks, if you are using it one handed, with how the rules are written, I would say yes.  However I do know that I would use average Strength for the Recoil comp for the test as that can easily go through much more of your body, plus legs for stabilization.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #54 on: <07-25-15/0657:04> »
ya but if Im just using a machine pistol and I have maxed out cyber arm do I just use that one? what if it was an SMG?

1 handed weapons use 1 cyberarm... Machine Pistols or Ingram Smartgun. 2 handed weapons use 2 cyberarms (or weakest limb)... submachine guns like Ares Sigma-3 & Assault Rifles.

Xenon, what I meant was +5 to the Cyberlimb.  It's never stated if the Cyberlimb has it's own Augmented Maximum, which is where I was talking about.  Where has it been clarified that they don't affect Physical Limit?  Is it in an Errata document?  I know I have heard this before, and could of sworn I had seen it, but I can't seem to find it either in my updated PDF of the Core book or in the Errata PDF I have for it.

I posted the quote from the designer on the previous page. You can check the Chromed Flesh Errata thread to verify it yourself.

Bulshock

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« Reply #55 on: <07-25-15/1457:48> »
That still doesn't state if Cyberlimbs have their own augmented maximum.   That quote seems to imply that the person responding to you was trying to say a Cyberlimb shouldn't be able to go above your natural attribute +4 (i.e. no strength 2 person with a limb with strength 9).  It's worded very ambiguously.  If it's just talking about Redliner being an Augmentation bonus that's fine, but no where does that quote state anything about Cyberlimbs having an Augmented Maximum, or if the Enhancement bonuses to Strength and Agility fall under that.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #56 on: <07-26-15/0323:59> »
That still doesn't state if Cyberlimbs have their own augmented maximum.   That quote seems to imply that the person responding to you was trying to say a Cyberlimb shouldn't be able to go above your natural attribute +4 (i.e. no strength 2 person with a limb with strength 9).  It's worded very ambiguously.  If it's just talking about Redliner being an Augmentation bonus that's fine, but no where does that quote state anything about Cyberlimbs having an Augmented Maximum, or if the Enhancement bonuses to Strength and Agility fall under that.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS!!!!! Since Redliner is the only possible way to get a +5 Enhancement on Cyberlimbs (only way to even get a +4 Bonus as well) & the designer explicitly stated that they must still abide by the +4 Augmented Maximum Limit... what other way can you read it? Augmented Maximum works differently in SR5 than SR4... Cyberlimbs are not beholden to you natural stats regardless, only Racial Maximums. So a Human using Redliner could get their Cyberlimbs Agility/Strength up to a Maximum of 10... 6 +4. At zero point zero times with what the designer said could you ever get to 11. A Gnome or Elf could get to Agility 11 but that's because their Racial Maximum is 7... 7+4=11.

astaroth999

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« Reply #57 on: <07-26-15/0513:28> »
i guess maybe redliner is meant more to help with synthetic cyberlimb, which runs more into capacity problem frequently. Still, Agi 10 is nothing to sneeze at.

Does the +4 applies to the racial maximum? or what the cyberlimb is customised with? i.e. if your cyberlimb is customised with 6 agi, it can go up to 10. but if your cyberlimb is customised with agi 5, can it still go to 10 using redliners & enhancement +5?
« Last Edit: <07-26-15/0524:16> by astaroth999 »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #58 on: <07-26-15/1609:01> »
i guess maybe redliner is meant more to help with synthetic cyberlimb, which runs more into capacity problem frequently. Still, Agi 10 is nothing to sneeze at.

Does the +4 applies to the racial maximum? or what the cyberlimb is customised with? i.e. if your cyberlimb is customised with 6 agi, it can go up to 10. but if your cyberlimb is customised with agi 5, can it still go to 10 using redliners & enhancement +5?

It abides by the +4 Augmented Maximum Limit! That means you can never have an Enhancement Bonus greater than +4... if your Cyberlimb is only Customized to Agility 5, than you can only get to Agility 9. A Cyberlimb is limited to the same Racial Maximum as the person who has the Cyberlimb. If you choose not to customize up to that limit than you are still restricted to +4 by Augmented Maximum Limit. It takes Redliner to even get a +4, since +3 is the highest Enhancement Bonus available for Cyberlimbs from Augmentation.