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Neat combo?

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astaroth999

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« Reply #15 on: <07-05-15/0933:48> »
Your Legs at Availability 14 are Illegal without 2 Restricted Gear Quality which in itself is illegal. I'm working on a Prime Runner Sum to Ten build right now, mainly to avoid the Availability issue that makes yours invalid. Though I'm going the other way with them to shove go much stuff in them it's falling out, you'd be surprised at how fast 86 Capacity fills up. I'll post it once it's finished, I finally got the 'ware figured out or at least figured out that cramming more in is no longer feasible cause those limbs get super expensive super fast.

You are right, it is illegal! Did not realise the optimization added +2 availability, and my chummer didnt track the availability properly. Anyway I edited the build above. I added the quality biocompatibility and reduce the grades for both legs to standard from alpha to make it legal again. Also drop the grades for the cyberarms to used from standard. Using the freed up cash to get synaptic acceleration instead of boosted reflex and 2 additional armor for the cyberarms. Dropping them to used grade allow me to pick up the 3rd armor rating. Net change is  -5 karma, but gain 1 initiative and 1 defense pool, +2 armor and increase my remaining essence to 0.34 from 0.16. Come to think of it. This is in fact more efficient than the first build. hahahah

Getting closer to my build now... Drop the Legs to used to get Didigrade and you're set. Prime Runner let's you add Bulk Modification for even more gooey goodness. I think the Steamers full of NeuroStun & an Internal Air Tank will be the funniest thing in a while. But Redliner is still trash... imagine Narco & Pharmaceutical Grade Kamikaze! Way better than Redliner... + 6 Boxs for Physical (need some where to offload that Stun Damage), +2 Body, +1 Strength, +2 Willpower, +2d6 Initiative, +2 Physical Limit, & High Pain Tolerance 3. All for the low low cost of an Addiction Threshold 2 or 1 roll every other week against 10 dice if not Addicted or 14 if Addicted (no real reason not to start at Mild for the Karma.) Cyber Singularity is worth it in my opinion & greatly shores up traditionally the Street Sams most well known weakness. Willpower 5(7) or (9) on Kamikaze. Shake off Stunbolts like rain once the Mages counterspelling dice get added on. Still trying to make that Pain Editor fit though (it's a pain that I haven't been able to overcome that last hurdle stopping it from perfection.) I might have to bite the bullet and drop my Rating 4 Hydraulic Jacks, I just really wanna be able to jump off 4 story roofs for fun.

Critiques on what you have so far. Datajack=Waste... get a commlink, you'll get DNI & not waste Essence for it. Internal Router=Waste... you don't have much that gives Wireless bonuses & what you do have you already have a Neural Connection to so activating it is a free action. (A) Reaction Enhancers 2=Waste... (U) Reaction Enhancers 3 is better in every way & about the same cost. Cybereyes=Giant Waste! Get a SmartLink in your eyes... you A. Waste Essence & Nuyen B. Leave your eyes open to bricking to blind you (kinda makes the Internal Router a complete and total Waste) C. Vision Enhancement 3 in Contacts (they have to be Wireless anyways) the rest goes into Glasses for everyday wear & a Ballistic Mask for Runs.

Oh... because it's such a heinous assault upon everyone who has the misfortune that happens to see you, Never Stack Sleeping Tiger with a Synergist Line Coat!!!!! Wearing a Sleeping Tiger is bad enough in Public especially since you aren't an Ork or Troll, but committing a fashion faux paus of that caliber should generate a crowd of villagers with pitchforks & torches to chase you out of town like Frankenstein Monster!!!!! Also... Ballistic Masks are cooler, conceal your identity, & don't ruin the -2 Penalty to Perception Checks from Ruthenium Coating.

i dont mean to play the char. its just a showcase that cyberlimbs and redliner is no longer as weak as quite a few people see them. As for my augmentation choices:-

1) i think redliner is a steal. but its just my opinion and because i prefer certainty in my char. If you prefer drugs as long term measure, you can surely definitely go that way.

2) datajack is just cool and gives you DNI for a cheap cost. Plus you get a free noise reduction. Throw in a cyberear with 3 antennaes with the S-n-M combo with a Evo Himitsu and you can get 15 DP to avoid matrix perception. A commlink doesnt give DNI. You'll need a trode for that DNI (in a fight, someone can pull your trodes off, or at least at my table you can)

3) Internal router is perhaps the most important thing for me as a Sam. It gives you access to wireless bonus for your cyber holster and skimmers, and most of the smartlink function (except the +2DP), without actually ever needing to turn on wireless. Save you lots of grief from bricking. When you add in a vision enhancement for your cybereyes, the internal router will help you get the +2DP for your perception test.. Realistically speaking, you can slave your devices to your decker. But if the decker is actually using a deck, it will at most be device rating 3 and will only able to take 9 devices as slaves. I dont think he/she will appreciate you asking him/her to protect 5 or 6 of your devices. For me shadowrun may be about teamwork, but it is also trying to be as self sufficient as possible.

4) Reaction enhancer 3. If you have the essence, why not. Just that when i was playing around with the build, it takes too much essence because you have to buy used grade for a R3. With biocompatibility, a R2 alpha is 0.42 essence. R3 used is 0.99 essence. A difference of 0.57 essence.

5) You can go visual equipment route. Personally i prefer cybereyes so that you dont have to wear contacts (wireless must always be on), glasses (can fall off), googles (conspicuous). With internal router, all wireless bonus is accessible except the +2DP from smartlink.

6) For the sleeping tiger and synergist line coat combo, other than being really munchkin, i dont see why its a fashion faux pax? Given that both are custom fit equipment (which by definition is a perfect fit which doesnt even allow for minute changes), it should fit your char perfectly without looking out of place. That said, i really have no idea what a sleeping tiger should look like given the lack of description. I havent seen any description that only orks and trolls wears it.

in any case, the build is just an example. It is by no means optimized. Please feel free to use or change whatever you like. I am sure you can make a more optimized char than the example above
« Last Edit: <07-05-15/0949:42> by astaroth999 »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #16 on: <07-05-15/1019:00> »

1. If you think spending Karma for a bonus is better than taking Drug & .2 essence for 16k that does a whole lot more. Ok.... confusing since it's as inferior as a Model T to a Ferrari.

2. Implanted Commlinks gives DNI & come with a free Sim Module.

3. How you are getting your gun out of a Cyber holster in your leg while wearing pants is beyond me. But even beyond that your gun needs to be talking to your eyes... so your Internal Router is meaningless for the +2 DP. Your Cybereyes are brickable any time you use your smartgun... if you strung your cable from your Datajack directly to your gun you'd still get some bonuses... like ejecting a clip as a free action. You can get a + 3 to Visual Perception with contacts for cheaper... again highly inferior option. You also have a Neural Interface with all your Cyberlimbs so you can turn on & off wireless with a free action. I'm throwing 16 Dice for Defense (25 for full matrix defense) so I care absolutely zero about a Deckers inferior dice pool protection. I'll be on the Public Grid & the Decker will be Running Silent, so that's a -4 die pool for him. I actually want him to attack me at that point. Smash him for bothering me... I just realized how truly punishing I could be to a Decker in writing this. To the point I could see not even hiding just to hammer him by Defending. The Tanking ability across Physical & Matrix is bar none... even the Astral isn't easy.

4. It's definitely worth it for the Initiative & even more important Defense Die

5. Glasses/Ballistic Mask is way better in that it's cheaper & who cares if ¥1200 contacts get bricked really... and again I'm throwing 16 or 25 dice since I avoided the trash quality Redliner.

6. It's Orkxplotation with pvc & chain mesh meant for Orks & Trolls... even the other Orks & Trolls look down on the ones who wear it. It's  very tacky & gaudy outfit coupled with middle manager overcoat. It's a complete eyesore & even worse when coupled together. You also don't get the true benefits of the Ruthenium Coating hiding it under another coat.


I was already doing so... I was simply pointing out areas that you were wasting Chargen on. The Datajack noise reduction is ok but not really game changing... I'm working with hundreds of percent trying to make everything fit, so it's not usable to me. I mean you can have a Universal Port on your arm to plug a Universal Cable into your Commlink if it's that important.  Your point was that Redliner was a good quality... I was outlining how worthless it is and how it's gimping your character from taking something good like Cyber Singularity Seeker. And also critiquing some other build choices that aren't really doing anything for you.

« Last Edit: <07-05-15/1037:33> by I_AM_ZHOUL!!! »

astaroth999

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« Reply #17 on: <07-05-15/1111:10> »

1. If you think spending Karma for a bonus is better than taking Drug & .2 essence for 16k that does a whole lot more. Ok.... confusing since it's as inferior as a Model T to a Ferrari.

2. Implanted Commlinks gives DNI & come with a free Sim Module.

3. How you are getting your gun out of a Cyber holster in your leg while wearing pants is beyond me. But even beyond that your gun needs to be talking to your eyes... so your Internal Router is meaningless for the +2 DP. Your Cybereyes are brickable any time you use your smartgun... if you strung your cable from your Datajack directly to your gun you'd still get some bonuses... like ejecting a clip as a free action. You can get a + 3 to Visual Perception with contacts for cheaper... again highly inferior option. You also have a Neural Interface with all your Cyberlimbs so you can turn on & off wireless with a free action. I'm throwing 16 Dice for Defense (25 for full matrix defense) so I care absolutely zero about a Deckers inferior dice pool protection. I'll be on the Public Grid & the Decker will be Running Silent, so that's a -4 die pool for him. I actually want him to attack me at that point. Smash him for bothering me... I just realized how truly punishing I could be to a Decker in writing this. To the point I could see not even hiding just to hammer him by Defending. The Tanking ability across Physical & Matrix is bar none... even the Astral isn't easy.

4. It's definitely worth it for the Initiative & even more important Defense Die

5. Glasses/Ballistic Mask is way better in that it's cheaper & who cares if ¥1200 contacts get bricked really... and again I'm throwing 16 or 25 dice since I avoided the trash quality Redliner.

6. It's Orkxplotation with pvc & chain mesh meant for Orks & Trolls... even the other Orks & Trolls look down on the ones who wear it. It's  very tacky & gaudy outfit coupled with middle manager overcoat. It's a complete eyesore & even worse when coupled together. You also don't get the true benefits of the Ruthenium Coating hiding it under another coat.


I was already doing so... I was simply pointing out areas that you were wasting Chargen on. The Datajack noise reduction is ok but not really game changing... I'm working with hundreds of percent trying to make everything fit, so it's not usable to me. I mean you can have a Universal Port on your arm to plug a Universal Cable into your Commlink if it's that important.  Your point was that Redliner was a good quality... I was outlining how worthless it is and how it's gimping your character from taking something good like Cyber Singularity Seeker. And also critiquing some other build choices that aren't really doing anything for you.


1. Well i just personally prefer certainty vs trusting to pass an addiction roll week after week even if the odds are with me. In game time for runs at my table can last for a few hours, so i rather my char not pop a kamikaze then crash out 20 min later. But of course this is due to my table experience, so i am bias.

3. I am thinking a slit on the side of the pants. holster can slide in and out via that slit. i am going the universal cable to the gun route to get the smartlink effect, not via wireless. I guess if your matrix defense is that high, i can understand why internal router is trash for you. My GM will never allow S-n-M program, so my decker will definitely have a better defense pool than me. Thats why internal router is very important for me.

4. Sure. my build just didnt have the essence for it is all.

5. In any case, redliner may or may not be adding +4 to your meat body, it may actually be adding to your cyberlimb. so may have to wait for the errata.

6. Is that how it looks? where did you find that description? Can you point me to it? If thats how it looks i certainly will be switching the outfit for the actual char i am playing.
« Last Edit: <07-05-15/1144:26> by astaroth999 »

Sterling

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« Reply #18 on: <07-05-15/1114:30> »
Sleeping Tiger hasn't been described this time around, but this may help:



Seeing as TPTB decided to not include anything in R&G on what it looks like, this is the most recent description we have. Some orks and trolls like it, but you're more likely to meet them inside a corporate enclave, arcology, or gated neighbourhood.
"His name is Sterling. He’s an ex-pat Brit making a living as a fixer and a hacker in Metropole. He’s a rare blend of upstanding and fun...(so) listen to his experience."
>>Data Trails, p.82

astaroth999

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« Reply #19 on: <07-05-15/1140:19> »
Sleeping Tiger hasn't been described this time around, but this may help:



Seeing as TPTB decided to not include anything in R&G on what it looks like, this is the most recent description we have. Some orks and trolls like it, but you're more likely to meet them inside a corporate enclave, arcology, or gated neighbourhood.

Hahaha, looks like my elf girl char will be wearing a zoe executive from now on. hahahah
« Last Edit: <07-05-15/1144:59> by astaroth999 »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #20 on: <07-05-15/1158:46> »
1. Rolling 14 dice against at most a (2)... hovering around 2% to fail that before spending an Edge to reroll, a (1) is even less. I guess I'm just a gambling man with those odds. Course I have a 1% of only getting 2 passes in a Combat Turn & 24% to get 4 passes per Combat Turn on Initiative.

3. Nothing to do with Smoke & Mirrors... that's a 9 Willpower & 7 Firewall. Full Matrix Defense adds Willpower again for a total of 25 dice, being on the public grid cause a -2 dice Penalty & if he's running silent he'll take another -2 Penalty as well, for a -4 before Noise Penalties against my 16 or 25 DP. Smoke & Mirrors only helps Sleaze which is what you would be using to Hide from a Decker. I'm not Hiding  (no Sleaze Attribute) just being a mental giant.
***cutting holes in your pants, even less stylish and who wants to do this if they can't look cool while they do it? Take the Spur out of your left arm and put the Cyber holster there. Then you can draw it with your right hand and have your spur there for melee. (I'm going monowhip in a Fingertip Compartment cause I love MonoWhips.... probably something to do with seeing Johnny Mnemonic 2 months before I ever played my first shadowrun game,  and then there one was!)***

4. Hence why I was pointing out all the wasted essence.

5. Could be... makes a Quality I see as a good concept but failed execution into just a flat out failure. I hope that isn't the case.

6. Sterling got this one before I could quote 4th edition. Yeah Run & Gun was definitely not amazing and that is part of it. Cause everyone gets it because no one knows what it looks like. It's the equivalent of going to a black tie affair in FUBU with your pants sagging down to your knees. Nobody is going to say anything to your face about but everyone will be judging you and you sure won't be blending into High Society that considering the price tag you'd believe you would be.
« Last Edit: <07-05-15/1228:37> by I_AM_ZHOUL!!! »

Rooks

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« Reply #21 on: <07-05-15/1237:30> »
can you get BTH: Better Than Human 4.5 16R 275,000 used?

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #22 on: <07-05-15/1301:57> »
can you get BTH: Better Than Human 4.5 16R 275,000 used?

No. There are no grades... it's a one slot package. I was hoping that theywould rework the Cybersuites for Chromed Flesh. They are fine as a Video Game mod... but for the RPG they are just not enough. BTH if you can Customize the Limbs could be work it. Though check the Character Creation forum later... I'll post my build that blows BTH out the water if you are looking to play a character like that.

astaroth999

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« Reply #23 on: <07-06-15/0051:56> »
1. Rolling 14 dice against at most a (2)... hovering around 2% to fail that before spending an Edge to reroll, a (1) is even less. I guess I'm just a gambling man with those odds. Course I have a 1% of only getting 2 passes in a Combat Turn & 24% to get 4 passes per Combat Turn on Initiative.

3. Nothing to do with Smoke & Mirrors... that's a 9 Willpower & 7 Firewall. Full Matrix Defense adds Willpower again for a total of 25 dice, being on the public grid cause a -2 dice Penalty & if he's running silent he'll take another -2 Penalty as well, for a -4 before Noise Penalties against my 16 or 25 DP. Smoke & Mirrors only helps Sleaze which is what you would be using to Hide from a Decker. I'm not Hiding  (no Sleaze Attribute) just being a mental giant.
***cutting holes in your pants, even less stylish and who wants to do this if they can't look cool while they do it? Take the Spur out of your left arm and put the Cyber holster there. Then you can draw it with your right hand and have your spur there for melee. (I'm going monowhip in a Fingertip Compartment cause I love MonoWhips.... probably something to do with seeing Johnny Mnemonic 2 months before I ever played my first shadowrun game,  and then there one was!)***

4. Hence why I was pointing out all the wasted essence.

5. Could be... makes a Quality I see as a good concept but failed execution into just a flat out failure. I hope that isn't the case.

6. Sterling got this one before I could quote 4th edition. Yeah Run & Gun was definitely not amazing and that is part of it. Cause everyone gets it because no one knows what it looks like. It's the equivalent of going to a black tie affair in FUBU with your pants sagging down to your knees. Nobody is going to say anything to your face about but everyone will be judging you and you sure won't be blending into High Society that considering the price tag you'd believe you would be.

Interesting. I can see why now u advocate css vs redliner. Your build synergise so well via an extremely high willpower. Never even struck me that brute power matrix defense is enough to protect my gear. Guess this is really one option i have never explored.

3. A hole, yes. But not cut a hole on the side of the pants where people can see your legs. Thats too uncool. Imagine your working pants inner pocket sleave has a big hole in it. The kind that whatever you put inside the pocket will fall to ground. Imagine now the inner pocket sleave and pocket slit are elastic and stretchable. When the holster open ala robocop style. It push out perpendicular to ur leg. The normal pants becomes stretched tout like when u stuff alot of stuff in your working pants in real life. Due to the stretch, the elastic slit will also be stretch open and creates a larger pocket hole. The gun then pops out diagonally backwards out of the slit into the open. When the holster is not open. The pants will look exactly normal with a pocket slit. At least this is how i imagine it works

On the subject of imaginary items. Your question about how the sam is directly connect to the smartgun without going wireless has got me thinking. You are right. It wouldnt make much sense that i have to pull the gun out of the holster then plug a wire in. In game, it should take an extra action so its not desirable.

Hence I am now thinking of creating a peusdo diy skinlink so that i dont have to plug a cable to the gun just to access most of the smartlink function.

Step 1. Install the induction receiver module (datatrail pg 65) into your cyberarm. You are now considered directly connected to a device by touching the datacable connected to it.

Step 2. Plug a datacable into the universal port of the smartlink gun. Run and tape the cable to where your palm will hold the gun handle. Or the front of the trigger will also work (though this means you will need to place your fingers on the trigger all the time to become directly connected.

Step 3. (Optional). Cut data cable to desired length. Strip the rubber insulator off the wire. Reinstall the wires into the rubber grip of your gun so that it is insulated. It should be in the same area as where your palm touches the grip. For in games rules. This is probably just a maybe more expensive personalised grip.

Viola! Everytime you grip the gun. You are considered directly connected. Say goodbye to ugly wires and up your coolness by a factor of 10.


« Last Edit: <07-06-15/0100:05> by astaroth999 »

Bulshock

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« Reply #24 on: <07-20-15/2051:52> »
With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats.  I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.

astaroth999

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« Reply #25 on: <07-23-15/0210:11> »
With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats.  I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.

Lolx. Thats op. So much improvement for just 10 karma.

Makes my example go 21dp range and melee with a 14dv spurs.
« Last Edit: <07-23-15/0215:03> by astaroth999 »

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #26 on: <07-23-15/0236:49> »
With regards to Redliner it sounds like the intended reading is to affect both cyberlimbs and your regular stats.  I just asked for clarification if that was meant, but with the initial reply in the Errata Thread it sounds like it's supposed to be both.

Lolx. Thats op. So much improvement for just 10 karma.

Makes my example go 21dp range and melee with a 14dv spurs.

Ummmm.... Monofilament Whip is still beating you against any kind of real opposition. The AP value is so much better that it cancels out the Soak Test & it has Reach 2 so it's cancelling 2 more Defense Dice as well. So your hyper specialized built for that one purpose character is doing about the same as a weapon that has existed in the game for decades. My playing Shadowrun the very first time about 2 months after watching Johnny Mnemonic back in 95 is one of the reasons I immediately fell in love with the game. Been using Monofilament Whips since 2nd, had them as Weapon Foci for Adepts as well as any high agility street sam, or for a 1 Cyberarm Decker. Just about every role there is to play I've used a Monofilament Whip for their Melee Weapon. The clarification that Redliner affecting both Natural & Cyberlimb Attributes has swung me from thinking Redliner was total trash to it being a decent quality (still love Cyber Singularity Seeker though.) It still is far from game breaking since the +4 Augmented Bonus Maximum is still in effect.

Xenon

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« Reply #27 on: <07-23-15/0303:27> »
Big drawback of monowhip is that it is Forbidden...
...you know....much like specialized sniper rifles, non-commercial explosives, hand grenades, grenade launchers and missile launchers....(!)

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #28 on: <07-23-15/0323:15> »
... and cyber spurs  ;D
At least a monowhip can be concealed easily.

@Bulshock
How exactly should two cyberarms with deactivated security protocols give more strength to your legs so you can run faster?
I think it's pretty obvious that only the cyberlimbs benefit from increased strength.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #29 on: <07-23-15/0345:38> »
... and cyber spurs  ;D
At least a monowhip can be concealed easily.

@Bulshock
How exactly should two cyberarms with deactivated security protocols give more strength to your legs so you can run faster?
I think it's pretty obvious that only the cyberlimbs benefit from increased strength.

Stole my response to Xenon...  :P

In the Errata thread the designer said it was supposed to affect both. Makes it a decent quality for 4 limb/Liminal Body users... otherwise it's just trash.