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[SR5] Move-by-Wire System

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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #30 on: <07-06-15/0011:56> »
MbW used to be the quickest of all initiative enhancements (I don't know about 4th though) and I have been thinking to let it return to that place.
Would increasing the initiative bonus to +4 per level be better than increasing dice to +2d6 at lvl 3?

Would've really been best to take the 3rd edition version (complete with all four ratings) and just remove the Quickness/Agility modification (though that would necessitate the lower Essence costs).
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jim1701

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« Reply #31 on: <07-06-15/0021:32> »
MbW used to be the quickest of all initiative enhancements (I don't know about 4th though) and I have been thinking to let it return to that place.
Would increasing the initiative bonus to +4 per level be better than increasing dice to +2d6 at lvl 3?

I keep seeing people see this but I'm pretty sure it is already +2d6 at level 3.  I think the example that follows the description is in error. 

Quote from: Chrome Flesh pp 84
...but Rating 2 and Rating 3 offer +1D6 Initiative Dice, meaning Rating 2 offers +2 Reaction, +6 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice, and Rating 3 offers +3 Reaction, +9 Initiative, and +1D6 Initiative Dice.

Grammatically speaking this should mean that both level 2 and level 3 both add a +1d6 to initiative which would mean the end of the next sentence should read... ,and +2D6 Initiative Dice.

I've been meaning to see if this has been posted in the Errata thread but I haven't gotten around to it yet. 

DWC

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« Reply #32 on: <07-06-15/0026:38> »
To me, I saw the change to Move By Wire, and immediately started thinking about maxing out Edge and spamming Blitz when ever it's important.

Kincaid

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« Reply #33 on: <07-06-15/0820:37> »
To me, I saw the change to Move By Wire, and immediately started thinking about maxing out Edge and spamming Blitz when ever it's important.

Same here.  MBW 1, Reakt, and Edge (and/or Boosted Reflexes assuming the reaction/initiative compatibility line holds).
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #34 on: <07-07-15/1139:49> »
Biocompatibility (Cyberware), 5 Karma
Prototype Transhuman, 10 Karma
Restricted Gear, 10 karma

Boosted Reflexes (Standard Grade, Availability 8R, 0 Essence, 10,000¥)
Move By Wire System Rating 3 (Standard Grade, Availability 24F, 205,000¥, 4.5 Essence), 10 Karma
Skilljack Rating 6 (Standard Grade, Availability 12, 60,000¥, 0.54 Essence)
5 months of Platinum Wireless Skillsoft Network access (100,000¥)

For 375,000¥ and 25 Karma you get:
+3 Reaction
+9 Initiative
+2d6 Initiative Dice (debatable)
Ability to load any rating 6 linguasoft and/or knowledge soft, as well as any rating 4 activesoft for a full 5 months
One negative quality free of charge! :)

I'd buy that for a dollar, as I think it makes for an interesting character concept. Research subject on the loose, kind of thing. Pair it with Amnesia and you've got the recipe for a blank slate.

prionic6

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« Reply #35 on: <07-07-15/1252:57> »
Boosted reflexes "are incompatible with any other Initiative-modifying augmentation" - which MbW definitely is.

Stoneglobe

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« Reply #36 on: <07-07-15/1304:33> »
Biocompatibility (Cyberware), 5 Karma
Prototype Transhuman, 10 Karma
Restricted Gear, 10 karma

Boosted Reflexes (Standard Grade, Availability 8R, 0 Essence, 10,000¥)
Move By Wire System Rating 3 (Standard Grade, Availability 24F, 205,000¥, 4.5 Essence), 10 Karma
Skilljack Rating 6 (Standard Grade, Availability 12, 60,000¥, 0.54 Essence)
5 months of Platinum Wireless Skillsoft Network access (100,000¥)

For 375,000¥ and 25 Karma you get:
+3 Reaction
+9 Initiative
+2d6 Initiative Dice (debatable)
Ability to load any rating 6 linguasoft and/or knowledge soft, as well as any rating 4 activesoft for a full 5 months
One negative quality free of charge! :)

I'd buy that for a dollar, as I think it makes for an interesting character concept. Research subject on the loose, kind of thing. Pair it with Amnesia and you've got the recipe for a blank slate.

Unfortunately this wouldn't work as Boosted Reflexes is not compatible with any other method of boosting initiative (the quote below is taken directly from Chrome Flesh.

 
Quote
It should be noted that, due to the nature of
the modification, boosted reflexes may not be removed
once installed, and they are incompatible with any other
Initiative-modifying augmentation.

Though as you have said in your post
Quote
+2d6 Initiative (debateable)

I would also take this to mean that once you have installed Boosted Reflexes it will over-ride any other better system you subsequently tried to install.
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #37 on: <07-07-15/1503:50> »
Boosted reflexes "are incompatible with any other Initiative-modifying augmentation" - which MbW definitely is.
I believe the debate is old, and hinges on the wording of initiative. Initiative is split into the calculated initiative score (REA + INT) and the initiative dice (1d6+). But you're absolutely right, this is questionable, which is why I marked it (debatable). Without boosted reflexes you'd save 10 karma and 10k nuyen. If only Reaction Enhancers stacked with Move-by-Wire systems. +6 Reaction total, +9 Initiative, and +1d6 Initiative Dice would give even a base REA and INT 1 character an initiative range of 19 to 31.

I do think Move-by-Wire is a little too limited in terms of stacking with other ware, so I'd consider house ruling this to make it a more attractive option, or even allow the more liberal reading that a Rating 3 system also provides +2d6 to initiative instead of the same +1d6 as a rating 2 system. It's just such an iconic piece of kit.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #38 on: <07-07-15/2212:09> »
I feel summoned! :D (Thanks for the PM, Brackhaus!)

Boosted Reflexes isn't compatable with anything (else) that gives you a bonus to Initiative, either a flat + or a dice increase. In fact, it renders the body unable to *ever* have those increases... as noted, it changes your neuralnet forever. It's cheap, but it costs in a different way.

That said, it works fine with stuff that gives a REACTION bonus, as teh increase in Initiative is due to the Reaction going up, not a bonus in and of itself.


Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #39 on: <07-07-15/2300:06> »
Thanks, Wakshaani! Not the answer I wanted, but the answer I needed. :)

I'll house rule Move-by-Wire systems as being compatible with Reaction Enhancers in the same way as Wired Reflexes, personally, and allow such a combination to break the augmented maximum limit. Since Reaction Enhancers is a direct Reaction increase and Move-by-Wire is supposed to be SOTA tech (unlike Wired Reflexes), this feels pretty thematic to my mind.

Miri

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« Reply #40 on: <07-08-15/0103:56> »
Thanks, Wakshaani! Not the answer I wanted, but the answer I needed. :)

I'll house rule Move-by-Wire systems as being compatible with Reaction Enhancers in the same way as Wired Reflexes, personally, and allow such a combination to break the augmented maximum limit. Since Reaction Enhancers is a direct Reaction increase and Move-by-Wire is supposed to be SOTA tech (unlike Wired Reflexes), this feels pretty thematic to my mind.

Allright.. I keep seeing it.  What the heck does SOTA stand for?

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #41 on: <07-08-15/0113:02> »
Thanks, Wakshaani! Not the answer I wanted, but the answer I needed. :)

I'll house rule Move-by-Wire systems as being compatible with Reaction Enhancers in the same way as Wired Reflexes, personally, and allow such a combination to break the augmented maximum limit. Since Reaction Enhancers is a direct Reaction increase and Move-by-Wire is supposed to be SOTA tech (unlike Wired Reflexes), this feels pretty thematic to my mind.

Allright.. I keep seeing it.  What the heck does SOTA stand for?

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PiXeL01

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« Reply #42 on: <07-08-15/0213:04> »
I think the recconned MbW. According to Chrome Flesh it was the very first kind of reaction booster and wired reflexes was a result of those efforts.  Used to be reverse though
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PJ

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« Reply #43 on: <07-08-15/1110:39> »
What about adding a 4th level (like the original)?

You could have Essence cost drop by 0.5, so it staged 2.5/ 3.5/ 4.5/ 5.5; keep everything else as is.  The 4th level would simply add an extra Reaction (+4 total), +3 Initiative (+12 total) and an extra +1d6 Initiative die (+2d6 total).  It would still incur the Social Limit penalty (-4 total).  Basically, someone with level 4 is the fastest reacting spastic.

Not sure what the price should be for level 4 though.

On further reflection, keep Essence cost as is and make the optional level 4 cost 6 Essence.  In game, most test subjects died (the few survivors had the yet to be identified Biocompatibility),  leading to develop of what is now Wired Reflexes.  Thanks to alpha-grade and better, level 4 is now a viable but costly option.
« Last Edit: <07-08-15/1349:06> by PJ »

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #44 on: <07-08-15/1420:39> »
Nice, I like that! Fits even better thematically with regards to the test subjects dying, and having alpha grade and better (or biocompatibility) affect the survival rate.