[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Ok... I wanna know how to get a 5/5/6/6 RCC using Dongles though! Especially for a 100k! Obviously that is beyond even the limits of what could be called Hyperbole at that point. So if denying Riggers Dongles is to prevent that from happening, that's a failure! It is impossible to achieve if they let RCC use Dongles. It costs ¥75,000 for a Rating 5 Dongle... so that's an impossible to achieve RCC that cost ¥225,000. A Novatech Navigator is 6/5/4/3 for ¥215,000... definitely a worse stat line but malleable & the locked attribute decks are higher stated but immovable. I call it parity that requires a complete breakage of the Rules to even achieve.

So if that's really their reasoning... that's like saying I can't drive my car to make sure I don't go to the moon with it.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Zhoul
Note that Kincaid says "100k less than an equivalent cyberpunk", not "100k".

[Rooks]

Nope, can't put the dongle on a RCC, because it is for comlinks. Something about how Riggers shouldn't be allowed to do anything with marks.

So basically Riggers are drek out of luck when theres a decker near by and starts putting marks on your RCC cause you cant even delete Marks off your RCC cause its a limit [attack] action and RCCs dont have an attack attribute best case you can reboot your RCC while drone are running and pray to the digital gods the Decker didnt reformat your RCC before hacking it to all hell

Also cause a Rigger using a RCC assumes a persona on the RCC he cannot slave it to a cyber deck for matrix protection so riggers are basically SOL unless they are slaved to a host which apparently doesnt break the rules


"There are also wide area networks, or WANs, with
multiple devices slaved to a host. This is the world of
that special kind of rigger, the security spider. They slave
their RCC to the building’s host and connect to the entire
security system, including all of its slaved drones. When
you’re inside a host, your effective “physical distance” to
drones slaved to that host becomes zero, even if you’re
on the other side of the world. The spider-rigger is often
teamed up with a spider-decker to help against hacking
intrusions on the security system"

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

Zhoul
Note that Kincaid says "100k less than an equivalent cyberpunk", not "100k".

Ok..... he's still wrong. Not only is the example described impossible to make but even illegally constructing it in violation of the rules still it's on parity with a Novatech Navigator. All I'm saying is if that's the logic for it... failure in logic. It's not cheaper as well as not being possible. Not to knock him or anything but he needs a point that actually carries weight to convince me that it has anything to do with Balance.

So we are back to "RCC have all the features of a commlink" & Dongles can be used with commlinks. If they give out some specific things in the Rigger Splatbook cool... but until then Dongles work with RCCs.

[Xenon]

I am fine with commlink dongles only working with commlinks. Thanks for the reference to the post made by Kincaid.
 
RCC might get some love in the rigger book, but because of all the extra that a RCC bring you gotta be careful so you can't use it to hack with (that dynamic noise reduction would be very strong for a decker!).

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

I am fine with commlink dongles only working with commlinks. Thanks for the reference to the post made by Kincaid.
 
RCC might get some love in the rigger book, but because of all the extra that a RCC bring you gotta be careful so you can't use it to hack with (that dynamic noise reduction would be very strong for a decker!).

An RCC would make as crappy of a deck to hack with as a commlink would. Still can't use Cyberprograms, Matrix Attributes are still immovable,  & still spending as much ¥ as a deck. So from a gear stand point it is completely moot.... it would also require a bunch of skills that a Rigger doesn't use to be a Decker with. The real strength in the Dongles & Modifications offer to Commlinks is better Defense Abilities. Granting those same defense abilities to a Rigger isn't going to break anything... denying those defensive abilities leaves them a glaring weakness no one else has to have anymore. Essentially Data Trails would equate as a Nerf for Riggers since everyone else was given a Power Boost except them. That is horrible Balance... especially if that was the goal!

[Herr Brackhaus]

Still can't use Cyberprograms,

Incorrect. RCCs can use all the programs available to cyberdecks. You just can't copy one from an RCC to a deck and vice versa.

[Xenon]

Its already been answered by Kincaid so the point is moot....

But a device with attack or sleaze rating (switching between them with two different dongles), ability to run cyberprograms, noise reduction equal to device rating, ability to order your entire botnet of agents that run on various devices with a single simple action and the option to reduce noise for the rest of the whole combat turn by taking a simple electronic warfare test... would make a great "cyberdeck" if you ask me. Probably at a lower overall cost as well...

[Rooks]

Still can't use Cyberprograms,

Incorrect. RCCs can use all the programs available to cyberdecks. You just can't copy one from an RCC to a deck and vice versa.

Incorrect. page 269 of core RCCs can run Encryption Signal Scrub Toolbox Virtual Machine Armor Biofeedback Filter Guard Shell Sneak Wrapper, but the fact they are RCC ran only is true.

[Top Dog]

That's a list of "handy programs for the savvy rigger", Rooks, replicated in the Rigger chapter for easy reading. It's not ment to be an exhaustive list of what they can use; it refers to the Programs section itself for that.

[Rooks]

That's a list of "handy programs for the savvy rigger", Rooks, replicated in the Rigger chapter for easy reading. It's not ment to be an exhaustive list of what they can use; it refers to the Programs section itself for that.

...what the drek? god I hate this system wake me when the 25th anniversary edition comes out when they fix all these gaping chest wound holes in their writing that are so big I can drive a Thunderbird (the vehicle not the awakend animal) through, You might want to put your drone into silent running mode, except drones dont have a sleaze rating hehe dur or how about when you are jumped in? When jumped in you probably want your persona operating under silent running while you’re at it. Hey ya that is a good idea except your RCC doesnt have a sleaze rating and you cant get one through the dongle use and you cant slave your RCC to a cyberdeck cause your using it and your persona cant be slaved to a cyberdeck but it can be slaved to a host so the only other way is to modify your RCC to add attribute and upgrade it damaging your RCC irrepairibly in the process *face desks hard and blacks out until these basic rules get clarified*

[Top Dog]

<backs away slowly>

In this specific example, I actually like what the book did. It gave a quick list of what a "typical" rigger might want from Cyberprograms (so you know which to look out for), with a quick description, plus a reference to the full section for when you want to go there in-depth.

You can still run silently, by the way - you don't need Sleaze for that. It's just that you're likely to be spotted if you don't, since you only use Logic. I mean, RCC's not having a way to do that effectively is still bad, but they can still do it.

[Xenon]

If you really want an attack and sleaze rating (maybe you are a rigger with cybercombat and hacking) then you can base your persona on a cyberdeck and jump into the drone from there.

Technomancers can use their living persona and a MMIR echo to do the same thing....

To spot a silent running icon you first need to have an idea that it is out there. You don't need a lot of dice to hide as long as nobody is actively looking....

[Rooks]

If you really want an attack and sleaze rating (maybe you are a rigger with cybercombat and hacking) then you can base your persona on a cyberdeck and jump into the drone from there.

Technomancers can use their living persona and a MMIR echo to do the same thing....

To spot a silent running icon you first need to have an idea that it is out there. You don't need a lot of dice to hide as long as nobody is actively looking....

except when drones are running about and anyone with a commlink and computer skill can make a matrix perception action

[Xenon]

Most people with a commlink and a computer skill does not have an attack or sleaze rating as well as the required cybercombat or hacking skills to make use of spotting the device icon of a silent running drone....

And as I said earlier. If you really want your drone to have a sleaze rating, slave it to a device that have a sleaze rating rather than a RCC that don't.

Reason you slave it to a RCC is so it can run all its autosofts on the RCC rather than local. Reason why you also base your persona on the RCC is because your control rig connect more smoothly  (simple action to jump in rather than complex) and because you can send the same instruction to multiple drones at once. It can also provide a lot of noise reduction which is great when remote controlling drones and vehicles.

It offer a lot of benefits, but stealth is not one of them.