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The "Discard" ablity on Black Market cards

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Jamelfr

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« on: <06-13-15/2047:24> »
Let's say that I have cards with abilities in my hand (Coordinated Attack and Monofilament Whip, for a quick example). I plan to use Guiding Spirit (text on the card : "You can discard your hand. If you do, draw that many cards."). Can I use the abilities of the Coordinated Attack and the Monofilament Whip and then use Guiding Spirit or does the Guiding Spirit ability happen before any other cards abilities?

I guess the same situation can apply to the Clairvoyance card (text : "Draw 1 card, then discard 1 card").

To put it in a general question: if a black market card permits to discard a card or hand, can I use the dscarded card's ability before discarding it?

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #1 on: <06-13-15/2330:32> »
No, because when you play a card it isn't immediately discarded. It goes onto the table (sort of like the Stack of MTG) and is only discarded once the apply damage phase is complete.
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Jamelfr

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« Reply #2 on: <06-13-15/2343:58> »
No, because when you play a card it isn't immediately discarded. It goes onto the table (sort of like the Stack of MTG) and is only discarded once the apply damage phase is complete.

Thank you for your reply. What you are saying is right, but I realize I need to add some details to my question.

The ability on a card is resolved when a card is played but before the "apply damages" step. I will quote the rulebook (p. 6) for reference : "You play cards from your hand during your turn, one at a time. If your cards have any abilities other than damage on them, resolve those abilities when you play the card. Your starting decks donít have any cards with non-damage abilities, though. When you play a card, you donít put it into your discard yet."

So, following this text, I could play "Coordinated Attack" and resolve its ability, and then play Guiding Spirit and get a new hand after using my first-now-discarded hand...

It would probably make Guiding Spirit "too" powerful and I think that your explanation is the right one : if you discard a card during your turn, you cannot play its ability. I just wish to be sure and maybe one of the developers could help with interpreting this text.   :)

graven2002

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« Reply #3 on: <06-15-15/0701:51> »
How I understood it:
Once you have played a card it is no longer in your hand, and therefore can't be discarded (it eventually moves to the discard pile, but technically you aren't "Discard"ing it). 
If Guiding Spirit is the last card in your hand when you play it, then you have 0 cards to discard for a new hand. 

If Clairvoyance is the last card in your hand when you play it, then you simply discard whatever card you draw. 
This can still be handy though, especially for mages who want to discard a basic card from the top of their deck or cycle their discard.

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #4 on: <06-15-15/1608:40> »
Right, for example using the card plays you mentioned.

The player has a 5 card hand, including a coordinated attack and a guiding spirit. They play coordinated attack, laying it down next to the obstacle they are going to damage with it (handled later). Resolve the picking another runner and them drawing/playing.

Next, from your 4 card hand (since you played Coordinated Attack) you play Guiding spirit, putting it beside an obstacle like you did with Coordinated Attack, now the player has 3 cards in hand and, per Guiding Spirit, may discard them and draw a new hand (of 3 cards).

I think the confusion you might have had is that a played card, while not discarded yet until after the apply damage phase, are not still in your hand and may not be used to fuel other cards that require you to discard card(s).

Jamelfr

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« Reply #5 on: <06-18-15/1236:47> »
I think the confusion you might have had is that a played card, while not discarded yet until after the apply damage phase, are not still in your hand and may not be used to fuel other cards that require you to discard card(s).

Yes, that indeed explains my confusion about the discard ability. Now, Guiding Spirit is a much more interesting card to play, that is good.

Thank you, Kiirnodel and Graven2002, for your help and insights.