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Power Creep - Reloaded

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Dread Moores

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« Reply #15 on: (15:15:30/12-30-10) »
Mäx has a pretty good summation of how one could assume Milspoec was overflow here:

http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=1858.msg20183#msg20183

That reads to me like a very biased interpretation from a single sentence on a forum, that was done tongue in cheek with a bit of in-character flavor. Along with some selective quoting to assume a malice that doesn't seem to be there, a bit like making the information fit the conclusion that existed before the information was even presented. It's a shame there isn't a product description on the SR page (that I could quickly find, anyway), so we could actually maybe compare product descriptions (which I would hazard a guess wouldn't be so short). There's a number of examples across the forums with that tongue in cheek IC flavor, which I'm guessing some of those folks quoted (maybe even Jason, though that's only a wild guess) had a hand in writing. When did that short of flair become a liability?

When FastJack made a joke at some Shadowland newbie's expense in an old SR2 book, was that suddenly evidence of his massive racist agenda? Making that leap on something done with a similar tone, in this instance here on the forums, seems a little specious to me, and quite a bit disingenuous. But I'm fairly sure our opinions on that will vary.

Unrelated, and something I should probably take elsewhere, but this post happened to make me think of it. The issue of getting the SR home page updated would certainly help. The upcoming products page lists some very out of date references, and things like MilSpec seem to have no coverage there.

Mäx

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« Reply #16 on: (15:28:59/12-30-10) »
That reads to me like a very biased interpretation from a single sentence on a forum, that was done tongue in cheek with a bit of in-character flavor. Along with some selective quoting to assume a malice that doesn't seem to be there, a bit like making the information fit the conclusion that existed before the information was even presented.
I take offence to that, i didn't make any assumptions and there's no selective quoting, there actually no quoting at all, there's just my paraphrasing of a product description that is completely opposite of what everyone from the company is claiming the product to be and a statement that the description should be changed if it's incorrect.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Otakusensei

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« Reply #17 on: (16:01:06/12-30-10) »
Mäx has a pretty good summation of how one could assume Milspoec was overflow here:

http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=1858.msg20183#msg20183

That reads to me like a very biased interpretation from a single sentence on a forum, that was done tongue in cheek with a bit of in-character flavor. Along with some selective quoting to assume a malice that doesn't seem to be there, a bit like making the information fit the conclusion that existed before the information was even presented. It's a shame there isn't a product description on the SR page (that I could quickly find, anyway), so we could actually maybe compare product descriptions (which I would hazard a guess wouldn't be so short). There's a number of examples across the forums with that tongue in cheek IC flavor, which I'm guessing some of those folks quoted (maybe even Jason, though that's only a wild guess) had a hand in writing. When did that short of flair become a liability?

When FastJack made a joke at some Shadowland newbie's expense in an old SR2 book, was that suddenly evidence of his massive racist agenda? Making that leap on something done with a similar tone, in this instance here on the forums, seems a little specious to me, and quite a bit disingenuous. But I'm fairly sure our opinions on that will vary.

Unrelated, and something I should probably take elsewhere, but this post happened to make me think of it. The issue of getting the SR home page updated would certainly help. The upcoming products page lists some very out of date references, and things like MilSpec seem to have no coverage there.

I really only want to speak up about references and in character flair.

In character means just that, taking on a certain characterization.  Sections in a book that are attributed to a character should be in character.  If they aren't they should be in the character of the book they are in, and thus follow those conventions as closely as the writer can manage and the developer can steer.

Information being stated by the staff of CGL can be said to "in the character of Shadowrun", but that's sort of squishy.  In official communication I ask that companies hold themselves to specific level of decorum and professionalism.  If you want to get excited and throw some flavor in there feel free, but please keep the facts factual.

And for the record Fastjack runs a hell of a network and has more than earned his chops.  When anyone on this board has done as much for the setting as that fictional character has I'll step up and defend them.  All I ask of the current croud is that they hold themselves to a high standard of professionalism, maintain a respect for the game and show that in the product they produce.

Dread Moores

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« Reply #18 on: (16:15:54/12-30-10) »
I take offence to that, i didn't make any assumptions and there's no selective quoting, there actually no quoting at all, there's just my paraphrasing of a product description that is completely opposite of what everyone from the company is claiming the product to be and a statement that the description should be changed if it's incorrect.

You're correct. That should have been phrased quite a bit better, and it was just frustration bleeding through on you. My apologies.

MilSpecTech--We couldn't possibly fit all the cool military gear that's available into War! So more of it is in here!

I still don't really see the one-line quoted above, as anything more than a quick post to give an incredibly brief synopsis of the product. Maybe not the best phrasing granted, but that just came off as tongue-in-cheek to me. You know, not all together that different from the tone found elsewhere on this forum when things like "if you people can't control yourself I swear there will be frag grenades going off here in, like, seconds" or "this is where we put up our grown-up voice" or "we don't like you playing other games but we tolerate it." Taken as non-humor, those all sound rather mean-spirited. I don't really see that one line as a product description though, especially compared to something like this:
Quote
Attitude

They can have their offices, their paychecks, their 2.2 kids and their robot-trimmed lawns. Screw ‘em. They trudge through life, doing what other people tell them to do, never having an original thought, burying themselves so deep down inside they might never come out.

You’re not them. The world’s not giving you anything, so you’re going to take what you can get. You’re on the streets, on your own. Maybe you’re helping an orxploitation band shoot to the top, maybe you’re climbing up the Street Brawl ladder, or maybe you’re getting famous just for being you. Whatever you do, you’ll do it your way, because dying beats the hell out of selling out.

Attitude helps shadowrunners live the untethered life by giving them the lowdown on music, entertainment, sports, and other scenes where they can make their mark without selling their soul. A repository of Sixth World culture along with a treasury of new ways to run in the shadows, Attitude is an indispensable resource for all Shadowrun players.

That looks like a product description. Reading more into that one line of off the cuff text (whether it should have been phrased better, I'll leave that debate up to other to decide)...I just read that as overreacting a bit. Which apparently, I then did as well. :)

FastJack

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« Reply #19 on: (16:21:41/12-30-10) »
That looks like a product description. Reading more into that one line of off the cuff text (whether it should have been phrased better, I'll leave that debate up to other to decide)...I just read that as overreacting a bit. Which apparently, I then did as well. :)

Don't worry about it, Dread. He wasn't talking about the character FastJack in the books. Otaku has an issue with my handle. ;)

Kot

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« Reply #20 on: (16:25:13/12-30-10) »
Hey, FastJack was acting just like his SR inspiration as long as I'm here. I'm going to stand up for him too. He has more than a JackHammer. He has most of the board behind him.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
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Otakusensei

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« Reply #21 on: (20:05:49/12-30-10) »
Hey, FastJack was acting just like his SR inspiration as long as I'm here. I'm going to stand up for him too. He has more than a JackHammer. He has most of the board behind him.

I've talked to the guy about this, and I hope we see eye to eye.

I'm against it because I personally think it's tacky and takes away from the character.  And because it's not clear sometimes that someone is talking about a character or someone who posts on one of the fan forums.  Less important to me, but possibly more important to a company that license the IP and operates a forum is that someone who comes to this forum may think that he is an employee of CGL.  By that extension making him a moderator is only reinforcing that perception.  New players may even think that his particular characterization, or even his true personality, is a reflection of the character in the game.  That's a disservice to the character and the material.  It's why you should lock certain names before the forum opens so Dunkelzahn can't come in and say "I'm a brown dragon cause I'm made of poop.  Poop, poop, poop."

The worst part to me is that I can't even mention it without seeming to attack the person behind the name, who I honestly have nothing against.  In fact I wouldn't even have a problem with him using the handle on a different forum.  But this forum is about Shadowrun, and Shadowrun in a very real way is about Fastjack.  So it looks tacky, and confusing.

Not good.

That's my peace on it in public now so I'll be quiet about it.
« Last Edit: (20:08:26/12-30-10) by Otakusensei »

FastJack

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« Reply #22 on: (21:10:14/12-30-10) »
I could defend my luck of getting FastJack as my handle here and how I've come to earn it the last few months, but I really don't care about Otaku's opinion on the subject and let my rep and history here speak for themselves.

Kot

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« Reply #23 on: (07:41:20/12-31-10) »
Otaku, i get it. You don't like the fact that someone uses FastJack's handle. But most of us here know who the (not)real FJ was. And i'm telling you, our FastJack isn't a lot different. Especially now. And since SR-FJ doesn't appear a lot in any game i can consider not-munchkin-ridden, nor would any sane GM allow him as a contact, I'm sure that someone using his nick here on forums can do no wrong. And as for the 'favorite SR nick as mine' matter, I've seen that everywhere, on DS even, to a lot bigger degree.

And please, keep those toilet metaphors to a minimum, or possibly refrain from using them, if you want to be taken seriously.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

wraith

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« Reply #24 on: (05:54:40/01-01-11) »
Otaku, i get it. You don't like the fact that someone uses FastJack's handle. But most of us here know who the (not)real FJ was. And i'm telling you, our FastJack isn't a lot different. Especially now. And since SR-FJ doesn't appear a lot in any game i can consider not-munchkin-ridden, nor would any sane GM allow him as a contact, I'm sure that someone using his nick here on forums can do no wrong. And as for the 'favorite SR nick as mine' matter, I've seen that everywhere, on DS even, to a lot bigger degree.

And please, keep those toilet metaphors to a minimum, or possibly refrain from using them, if you want to be taken seriously.

Eh, I'd rather agree with Otaku here.  Especially when the sourcebooks are still being formatted nominally as postings on JackPoint with FastJack taking over Captain Chaos' spot as the framing narrator.  Having someone in a position of power on the official forums with the name of a canon NPC that central does imply that they had the company's blessing on however they represent themselves under that name.

Kot

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« Reply #25 on: (06:01:02/01-01-11) »
Wraith, he's a Global Mod. That stands for something.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

Kontact

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« Reply #26 on: (06:48:55/01-01-11) »
Someone needs to make me a Global Rocker so that we can then fight with switchblades and bike chains...

Kot

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« Reply #27 on: (07:28:22/01-01-11) »
Meh. You're not Ancient enough. :P

As for the topic, i find the Designate spell from War! breaking the barrier between magic and tech. It's at least unnerving, because till now i saw that technology and magic didn't get along. And with Designate you can fool software and break encryption with magic. That's like Hacking with magic. So, the designer of the spell must have found a way to interface magic with technology. Because the usual 'mind-affecting' Manipulation mojo won't work, when you can't see your target - which is not the thing you Designate, only the person targeting. That would be working through a Sympathetic Link, and that's Ritual Sorcery.
And, as someone on TGD forums noted(yes, i registered there during the first War!-related skirmishes), Designate would be a best anti-bombardment defense. You mark a rock, and every artillery unit, or bomber fires at it only. And then you summon a spirit, and tell him to present that rock to the enemy commander...
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."

wraith

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« Reply #28 on: (07:48:59/01-01-11) »
Wraith, he's a Global Mod. That stands for something.

Sure, it means they trust him to enforce the forum rules and help keep this place running in his free time.  Unless he's getting paid for it, it doesn't really imply any other formal relationship with the company than a bit of acceptance of volunteer help, neh?   ;)

Kot

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« Reply #29 on: (07:50:58/01-01-11) »
Well, this place is as informal as it gets. Even though it's the official board.
Mariusz "Kot" Butrykowski
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup."