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Deus still out there?

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Aryeonos

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« Reply #15 on: (00:45:06/04-13-15) »
So, Ursus, do you write for the Shadow Wiki?

I was looking through some old 2nd and 3rd edition stuff and I'm not seeing anywhere where new otaku can't be made, and where all the people holding Dues and Megaera's code aren't still out there. I'm wondering if CFD isn't a precursor to their return. I haven't read storm front or the other mission yet, so I don't have all the details to speculate. Just loosely piecing these things together but cognitive fragmentation disorder, AI's rewriting people's minds, and Deus doing the same over a decade earlier sound like they could possibly interconnected.
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Sengir

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« Reply #16 on: (10:48:22/04-13-15) »
If you consider Street Legends canonical, Puck's entry there states straight away that Deus is back, to which Jackpoint reacts with casual indifference. Hence a big "if" ;)

And nother tidbit: System Failure at least heavily implies that one of the other corps which would later make up NeoNET (can't remember which one) "aquired" one member of Deus' network and was busy analyzing the cutting-edge tech Deus put into his head. Fast forward a few years, and NeoNET's technology is instrumental at building the new matrix...

Ursus Maior

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« Reply #17 on: (11:28:08/04-13-15) »
So, Ursus, do you write for the Shadow Wiki?
No, I do not, but thanks for assuming. I'd take it as a compliment. :)

@Wakshaani
Thanks for remarking, I would edit my post, if you'd care to specify. This was more or less from memory only. I've been GMing a campaign set in 2060+ for some time now and my group made contact with Deus forces recently. So, I bought and read most of the older books, but details... well, you know...

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[...] I'm wondering if CFD isn't a precursor to their return. I haven't read storm front or the other mission yet, so I don't have all the details to speculate. Just loosely piecing these things together but cognitive fragmentation disorder, AI's rewriting people's minds, and Deus doing the same over a decade earlier sound like they could possibly interconnected.
I guess that idea has occured other people as well. I for one would like to see the triad of primordial AI return. Especially Mirage still fascinates me.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #18 on: (16:56:54/04-13-15) »
I'm with Wak on that one.
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Sithlis

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« Reply #19 on: (18:52:29/04-13-15) »
Ursus if you did that off the top of your head that's almost scary but still awesome.

Magnaric

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« Reply #20 on: (22:42:59/04-13-15) »
So, my two ¥ worth here, but I haven't seen this posted yet so here goes.

I think Deus is still out there, and we will see the return of the Big Three AIs(in some form or other), for another couple of reasons entirely; Nostalgia and Paranoia.

To explain, Shadowrun has always been a universe where a healthy amount of paranoia is a good thing. There ARE dark things lurking in the shadows that we barely understand, and they ARE dangerous if you don't watch your back. That spine - tingling,  nerve-twitching, Oh Drew What Have We Done Now feeling is integral to the atmosphere of the game, and it's been heavily involved with the most popular modules to date.

Ask most Shadowrun veterans what they're favourite published settings and adventures are, and you hear the same two come up again and again - The Universal Brotherhood/Bug City, and Renraku Arcology Shutdown/Brainscan(also System Failure, but to a lesser extent). Both of those story arcs thrived on deadly, unfathomable foes that were nigh - impossible to understand, deadly environments and a fight for survival, and not knowing who you could trust. As much as Bug Spirits and Medusa drones probably ammounted to more dead PCs than all other enemies combined, players loved them and the adventures they came from.

Which brings me to the second (technically former) point. Nostalgia.

I think Catalyst has realized that they want to recapture some of the original cyberpunk feeling of the early editions while still moving forward and advancing the universe and story lines they have, and so they're taking a cue from their most popular story arcs. Now, they can't simply redo Bug City over again exactly the same, but in 4th edition we've already seen some major information drops and hints that the Bugs are more insidious than ever, and may have infiltrated some pretty high levels of ARES. So while the bugs aren't back per-say (they never left), they ARE still out there and dangerous and possibly better positioned than they were before under the guise of the Universal Brotherhood.

So now with 5th edition and the CFD virus, we're seeing the technological side of paranoid again, where nanites are taking people over and people are scared of the technology that they thought themselves the masters of. Plus we know that PAX is back (pretty much confirmed as Penelope Anne Xavier without actually coming out and saying it), and she was obviously one of the main NPCs of the Arcology/Crash 2.0 arc.

Now, I don't think they'll be back in the same way they were before, but in another form they will be. Perhaps as powers behind the scenes pulling strings, perhaps as new options for Resonance or Dissonance paragons (it was suggested in a 4E book that Morgan was Dodger's personal paragon, though that was just sentiment and speculation by Netcat at the time), I really don't know. But I am pretty darn sure they'll be back in some way. Because as far as Big Bad Scary Things go, Deus was one of the worst (or best).
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Aryeonos

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« Reply #21 on: (00:32:01/04-14-15) »
Hrm... This leads me to wonder how wide spread CFD is, or what your chances of contracting it are. Not that I`m gonna get rid of either my neocortical or limbic nanites. But if it is widespread (even if the corps are trying to keep a lid on it) either there are a bunch of AI molevolent or indiferent out there or theres a few trying to get that 1`000 or so that deus needed to reconsquigle its code.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #22 on: (01:52:29/04-14-15) »
Well, I suppose anything is possible.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #23 on: (01:58:15/04-14-15) »
One of the things that we've been tinkering with behind the scenes is the balance between magical threats and non-magical. You may have noticed that over the past decade or so, there have been scads of "Big magical evil" stuff, but the tech side has been barren. You had the Three (Four? Five? Jury's still out on Alice and teh Crash Virus itself.) and ... that was about it.

Compare that to Blood Mages, assorted Toxic Spirits, Bug Spirits, Shedim (Now nearing extinction!), immortal Elves, Dragons, secret magical societies, etc etc etc.

So, you know, the idea of an AI antagonist?

I won't exactly recoil from it.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #24 on: (03:02:05/04-14-15) »
Well, here's the thing about that: it's a replay.  For a story, you want progression; this is why generally people agree that the best shows of the New Doctors have been those who have introduced new bad guys, not just just the old standbys of The Master, The Daleks, The Cybermen, repeat.  You want progression, evolution, going up a level, however you want to look at it.  Sure, it's nice to fight against the Empire, but you need other bad guys for your Star Wars characters to fight against - smugglers, pirates, Hutt, the Corporations.

Which is why, I suppose, Horizon was (or, well, could have been) very incredibly cool; there was the possibility of a new, serious threat, and not one of the Old Standbys, whether blood mages, bug spirits, a Great Dragon, an ultra-obsessed AI fighting for its freedom, or Damien Knight.  There were people who wanted everyone to be friends, and interconnected, and it started to get (kind of still is) frickin' spooky because they wanted you to come drink the Kool-Aid with them and be all happy-fraggin'-sunshine all the time.  And the thing is, there wasn't anything actually different about them, except for that corporate brainwashing culture.

Meh.  I need to go back and read all my Threats and organization books again ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Aryeonos

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« Reply #25 on: (04:54:39/04-14-15) »
On the topic of balanced threats, CFD is scary, dont get me wrong I just spent the last four hours digging through the secret history subforums and all the topics that entails. But thats just it, its a very scary plague that (I have only heard from other posters) threatens the whole transhumanist side of things by making people nanophobes, And seems unstoppable.

My two problems with this CFD thing are, its an untouchable enemy, and if it is AI`s again its just another AIs want to kill everyone trope. Big one in the 80`s and 90`s, but why does it always have to be the machines want to kill us/revolt/go horribly wrong? But big bad untouchable entities that you cant fight suck, they`re villanous marry sues, and just feel like writer`s pets. I like blood mages and powerful penny pinching but still SOTA companies because well, they can be incompitent and you can fight them. Plagues on the other hand make me feel like I`m trapped in a cold war novel, or even older, collera epidemic.
I dunno, my 45 yen.
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Aryeonos

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« Reply #26 on: (04:58:04/04-14-15) »
-if deus does come back, I hope it and the dissonants and other original AI are key to stopping the CFD threat and redeam themselves in some way, making dissonant TMs seem more relatable and less mustache twirling nerdowells, and regular TMs less hated by the public at large.
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Magnaric

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« Reply #27 on: (10:51:00/04-14-15) »
-if deus does come back, I hope it and the dissonants and other original AI are key to stopping the CFD threat and redeam themselves in some way, making dissonant TMs seem more relatable and less mustache twirling nerdowells, and regular TMs less hated by the public at large.


I'd really like that actually. Magic is still suspect in a lot of places in the 6th world, though it's been gradually gaining recognition and even acceptance in a lot of more developed countries for a while. But technomancers are still considered dangerous Matrix-terrorists at worst and misguided people with special abilities at best, so they could use a little boost in PR. Plus the original superpowered AI Mirage started out as a defense and medical diagnostic program to help protect and heal Echo Mirage, so if anything would be suited to fighting CFD it would be it(him?)
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #28 on: (13:01:28/04-14-15) »
So, you need threats that you can put a bullet into/punch, and you want a selection of AIs that run a gamut of friendly to hateful and showcase some diverse opinions on things?

I think that this might be arranged...

Sengir

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« Reply #29 on: (14:31:52/04-14-15) »
Now, they can't simply redo Bug City over again exactly the same
Not exactly, but CFD comes pretty close to a rehash of the "body snatchers from X" storyline...again.

Anyway, I found the reference in System Failure, it's on page 16:
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On a different track, Transys-Neuronet has successfully captured at least one Node and, though they have not been able to get much of value from the Node’s code fragment, they have shown strong interest in the technology implanted in the Nodes.
Transys-Neuronet is one of the corps which went on to form NeoNet, the corp behind much of the physical infratructure of the new wireless Matrix. Now, just using hardware based on designs by Deus going to let him hack your brain (this isn't the exsurgent virus from EP). And given that the last sighting of Deus was in the middle of his attempted hard takeoff into singularity,  with Resonance and Dissonance wells, two other AIs, and the Jormungand worm forcing themselves into the mix before the whole whirlpool was hit with an EMP blast, I find it unlikely that he is still around in his original form. But whatever came out of that, it might still know some kind of otherwise unknown exploit or backdoor into the system.