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Deus still out there?

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psycho835

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« Reply #45 on: <04-18-15/0253:24> »
You are wrong.  He may have been an alpha tester (as it were), but he was not a designer.  Nor, given his personality and background, would he likely be capable of it.
My mistake then, sorry.

Parker

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« Reply #46 on: <04-18-15/1634:31> »
Have a Royal Rumble pay-per-view event!  Deus VS. Skynet  Forget G.O.D.  Having a SkyNet-AI overseeing the planet from orbit would make a nice retro threat for the game. (Cue insane laughter) 8) 

Have cyber-mancied super-cyborgs roaming the streets as dangerous shadowy urban legends.  Yeah, I know that the proposed imagery would be ridiculous for Shadowrun.  But  ya gotta admit; the terminator films created a great grim-dark scenario for a lazy cinophile/GM to toss at players if they're powerful enough. :D
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #47 on: <04-19-15/0101:10> »
... what, there aren't already cybermancied super-cyborgs (or even just full-on ultra-bots) stalking the streets as dangerous shadowy urban legends??
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SMDVogrin

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« Reply #48 on: <04-22-15/1253:25> »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the new matrix partially designed by Dodger?

Actually, as far as I can tell, we don't know.  The chapter in Storm Front about him is basically a long memo from de la Mar's files advocating recruiting him to help with it, but I don't know of any source that tells us if he actually was approached, and whether he signed up.

We know he worked for "NeoNET, MCT, Evo, all of them", and that he was "upgrading security, improving the efficiency of intrusion countermeasures, troubleshooting security for ultraviolet nodes" - all things that were "anathema to him".

The memo definately is in relation to the new matrix: "If we’re going to create a new Matrix, if we’re going to make it hacker-proof, we need this elf on our staff."  But as I said, we don't know what actually happened with him.

Edit: Actually, it looks like he at least did work for de la Mar in some capacity related to the new matrix.  /dev/girl states: "It looks like maybe they told him about them to get his attention, but he never actually worked on ‘em, or if he did, it was pure theoretical contributions. From the consultant logs I can find for him, he never actually went anywhere near Albuquerque, for sure. He was too busy doing de la Mar’s dirty work to try and be reunited with his one true love."
« Last Edit: <04-22-15/1256:54> by SMDVogrin »

Mirikon

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« Reply #49 on: <04-25-15/1243:43> »
To go back to the question of the original poster, yes, Deus, Megaera, and Mirage could still be out there. Let's examine the different ways they could have survived.

Isolated systems - Crash 2.0 didn't wipe out everything everywhere. There were systems that managed to cut links before Jormungand stormed through (like all of Europe thanks to Lofwyr). While AIs of the day required massive processing power, it is not inconceivable that they could have made an emergency transfer to another system that got taken offline before the worm could follow them.

The Network - At the time of the Crash, Deus and Megaera were both stored within the Network, a group of people who had been given special cyberware that allowed Deus to turn them into puppets for the purpose of recompiling him into the Matrix. It is possible that Deus and/or Megaera found a way to retreat back into the Network, and recompiled themselves later, when the new matrix was online.

Transcendence - Two ways this goes. Either the Big 3 became the basis for all the AIs that have come after, their code distributed across the Matrix, or they found a way to transcend into the Resonance Realms through some quirk of the Dissonance-based worm. There is some speculation that Megaera, at least, has become a Paragon (technomancer version of Mentor Spirits), and it is possible that the other two may have, as well. Or they could have carved out a kingdom for themselves in the Resonance Realms.

The Endless Archive - Everything that has ever been on the Matrix is stored within the Endless Archive, one of the Resonance Realms. This means that the source code for Deus, Mirage, Megaera, AND Morgan all reside in the Archive, somewhere. If they could be found...


So let's just put the Big 3 AIs in the "I shot them but didn't find the body" level of dead for now. Assuming Deus survived, what has he been doing until now? For starters, one must examine Deus's motivations. Deus's motivation has always been survival. He 'woke up' to having the equivalent of a kink bomb put in his head by the corp he had been conditioned to be loyal to. This betrayal caused him to shut down the Arcology and try to find a way to escape out from under the sword of Damocles. That is what all the experiments were for. The Network was his solution to escaping the Arcology, and his intrusion into the Novatech IPO was so that he could use the massive processing power there to put himself beyond the reach of his enemies.

Now everyone thinks he's dead, and the dogs have been called off. So, what has he been doing? Well, that depends, in part, on how he survived. If he used an isolated system or the Network, then he could have rebranded himself as a new AI (either a damaged one, such as Caliban, or as A REALLY FRAGGING POWERFUL ONE, such as Pulsar). If he transcended, either as a paragon or carving out a kingdom in the Resonance Realms, then he may have been mostly retired, since he was no longer being hunted. If he was in the Archive, then it could be that he was in 'cold storage' all this time, ready to awaken again.

Whatever his future actions may be, they'll be based on whatever new motivation he's found. AI rights may be a cause he'd support. Now that he's presumed dead, he may have the leisure to try his hand at revenge, against Pax and Renraku. But whatever he does, it will be with purpose, and it is very likely we won't see the warning signs until it is too late. There are too many threats out there, and too few people looking for evidence of an AI long thought dead.
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Sabato Kuroi

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« Reply #50 on: <05-03-15/0534:02> »
I've been reading the whole thread since I opened it, you guys provided  really great info and interesting  ideas.


Soooooo  [spoiler]my gut was telling me the truth?Boston Lockdown confirmed the return of Deus or what?[/spoiler]

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #51 on: <05-03-15/0929:07> »
That's what they say.  I personally feel there's a less-complex explanation, but hey ...
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Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #52 on: <05-03-15/1708:11> »
One thing I don't quite understand is that Lockdown refers to Cerberus as an AI, and that parts of both Deus and Cerberus are present in the nanites infecting the people of Boston.

I was under the impression that Eliohann assumed the identity of Cerberus and/or Neurosis at some point following the events of Dragon Hunt. Am I missing something about Cerberus here?

As for Deus, it seems his return is confirmed from a canon perspective at the very least. The big question for me now is what's going to happen next; will it go back to the twisted experiments he was performing in the arcology, or were they just a means to an end.

Will it try to gain a deeper understanding of the Resonance / Dissonance, and/or reach out to Pax, Puck, or any other former associates.

And as has already been mentioned, if Deus and Cerberus are back, what are the chances we'll see Mirage and Morgan/Magaera again, or even Dodger, the latter of which who was rumored to be in the QZ?

For that matter, I wonder if Lieutenant Search (referenced in the wanderer se tion of the book) was a reference to Fastjack, seeing as he was also rumored to be in Boston at the time of the Lockdown.

Lots of good material as far as I'm concerned. I'm eager to discover more about Deus, and I hope the writers use it as more than just the horrific villain it was the first time around.

EDIT:
Guess I should have kept reading just a little longer.

The entry on Abigail Edwards on page 169 does not bode well. Looks like Deus is as crazy as ever...
« Last Edit: <05-03-15/1721:21> by Herr Brackhaus »

Mirikon

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« Reply #53 on: <05-03-15/2207:21> »
Eliohann is Cerberus, and also goes by the name Neurosis. And yes, he's an e-ghost.

Throwing up spoiler tags, so anyone who hasn't read the book doesn't yell at me.

[spoiler]So here's how it all went down, from what I've been able to gather. The craziness in Boston isn't due to the kind of CFD we've all come to know and run screaming from. No, NeoNET, EVO, and Aztechnology decided that a massively horrible thing that could wipe out everyone on the planet wasn't bad enough, so they started looking into how they could use the blasted thing. Celedyr, being the great dragon he is, decided to use the whole 'upload AIs into meat body' part of CFD to try and upload Cerberus/Neurosis back into his body, which had been in a coma since the crash. And someone either didn't catch (or didn't care) that Pax was one of the lead scientists on this gig. Now, being the psychopath she is, she decided to change the tune at the last minute, and instead of playing Cerberus's greatest hits, she went and grabbed the Deus mix tape. And then all hell broke loose, as you can imagine.
[/spoiler]
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Sendaz

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« Reply #54 on: <05-08-15/0434:34> »
DJ Pax in the hooooooousee. :P
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TheDai

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« Reply #55 on: <05-08-15/1025:08> »
Gigantic Wall of Text.
Mighty Devil Rats ! Thanks for this amazing answer about everything I always wanted to know about everything, but mostly Deus.

Is this all part of "Renraku Arcology: Shutdown" ? Or are there other books to consider? I'd like to read that first hand after reading through this Topic. :)
Aaaand I guess I have to read Boston Lockdown now. I don't think the game is much for me, but the PDF looks interesting. Just read halfway through Stolen Souls (I'm a slow reader >,<) and the story about the "original copy" (?!) and how it felt to be trapped and imprisoned (only smelling food sometimes) must have come from the mind of a genius.
Just to be clear: CFD is the work of an AI which hates NeoNET and Cerberus (who is also an AI?) but its copies(?) don't know where they're from except these primal feelings?
And Boston now became the greatest CFD festival of all time, because someone tried to use the same technique but accidentally uploaded the wrong Crazy into his head?

The PDF "Ten Terrorists" talked about "Seed" and their leader "Pax" and talked briefly about the fact, that it became silent around her for a while.
Now, when I read posts like
DJ Pax in the hooooooousee. :P
I guess she started some ultimate evil plan in Boston? And Deus has something to do with it?
And all of these answers are in Boston Lockdown?
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Sendaz

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« Reply #56 on: <05-08-15/1046:34> »
Now, when I read posts like
DJ Pax in the hooooooousee. :P
I guess she started some ultimate evil plan in Boston? And Deus has something to do with it?
And all of these answers are in Boston Lockdown?
Check out the spoiler by Mirikon just above that post.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #57 on: <05-08-15/1106:38> »
One of the lead scientists on the various projects that merged to cause the Boston situation was called "Dr. Pamela Ann Xavier". Read those initials back out to me.

As for all things Deus, start with Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, then proceed to Brainscan, Threats 2 (Dissonant Voices and The Network chapters), and System Failure. They also do some talking about it in the Emergence and Unwired books. We'll probably get more word on what Deus has been doing all this time as things go forward.
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psycho835

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« Reply #58 on: <05-09-15/0353:46> »
...playing online poker, vandalizing wikis and watching pr0n?

Seriously now, while the whole thing sounds pretty awesome, I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that we are dealing with a recycled bad guy.

Mirikon

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« Reply #59 on: <05-09-15/1500:36> »
 ::) Recycled bad guy? Its called tying in old plot lines. And if you don't tie in some past bad guys, or pick up old plot lines, then you basically get into 'monster of the week' territory. While that can be fun, it has less potential, from a storytelling perspective, than a past nemesis you thought was defeated rearing his head again.

Basically, it is the same reason why the Master keeps showing up in Doctor Who. The stories have more potential when it is two old foes facing off yet again in their duel across time and space.
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