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[SR5] Fake SINs and Forgery skill

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Syntetesh

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« Reply #15 on: (14:55:00/03-19-15) »
My thoughts is fake SIN are more like real stolen SIN, and the rating represent how much you are close of the original owner's biometrics

Indeed R4+ are provided with sample for DNA check

Xenon

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« Reply #16 on: (15:21:08/03-19-15) »
and R6 got your biometrics....

Syntetesh

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« Reply #17 on: (15:26:57/03-19-15) »
and R6 got your biometrics....

Quote from: CRB p.363
R6 : Alternate life; all statistics match; valid
biometrics with samples; complete and
entirely believable history

Edit : Nevermind, R5 specificly stat "of an other person" so R6 should be your own (Why highlight that you have sample of our own body, I don't know...)
« Last Edit: (15:31:41/03-19-15) by Syntetesh »

Tarislar

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« Reply #18 on: (15:32:53/03-19-15) »
The forgery skills seem more useful for a quick paper copy of something.  You know, actual Forged Signatures, Documents, maybe Art, etc etc.

Forging a SIN in 2070 would be like trying to Hack the DMV, the IRS, the SSA, some Corp HR, & probably a few more things that I can't think of or don't have RW comparisons today.  Possible.  Yes.  Good Enough to not be found in a background check?  That is a different matter all together.

Make a fake DL to let a 19yo get past a bouncer at a club so he/she can drink prior to 21.  Sure.
Make a fake DL that has an attached SSN at the DMV & SSA with bio info that matches the person in front of you.  Not Really.


Novocrane

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« Reply #19 on: (18:09:07/03-19-15) »
Quote
Edit : Nevermind, R5 specificly stat "of an other person" so R6 should be your own (Why highlight that you have sample of our own body, I don't know...)
Devil's advocate to my own opinion here; It's possible that R6 has valid biometrics that just don't lead to anyone. That would make it difficult if you ever find yourself being checked without a sample ready, though.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #20 on: (23:04:28/03-19-15) »
Remember that an organization forging a SIN has a bunch of people doing the task - and doing it for several things simultaneously.  At the start of the day/week, they have a meeting, or the guy setting the things has a list of items set up that need to be planted.  "Sales of Widgets for these five SINS, uses of public toilets for these two," that sort of thing - and the more detailed (and thus higher-rated) the SIN is, the more work they go through, the deeper the SIN's history, the stronger it is, the more it costs and the more time it takes to get it done.  The thing that an organization has over John Hacker is that while he has to hack into thirty places to plant data, they have five people who each hack six places to plant the same data, and so get it done faster - and better.  And who will plant information for more than just one SIN.  Which, of course, your guy can do, but that means he has to do the job of the sixth guy, creating the structure and history of the SIN.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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shreck

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« Reply #21 on: (17:39:41/04-29-15) »
ho about just stealing one ?
just go to a place where you know a lot of  real "sin" are .
concert , sport event , libreray or café near a university .
look for someone near your build and fashial structure + age .
hack his comlink and do a copy file of his sin .
depending on how close a match you can find it can be a level 3-4 .
(yes it will burn up fast but any heat you pick up will go towards the origional owner of the sin ) .
unles your a basterd and geek the mark and take over his identety .

Novocrane

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« Reply #22 on: (17:59:06/04-29-15) »
Going back to what you could do; with the Forgery skill and appropriate knowledge skills, it would make sense that someone could attempt to forge a person's SIN when they know all / enough of the info encoded into a SIN. Or they could prepare a SIN that would be flagged as a forgery the first time it was checked against GSR records.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #23 on: (22:54:24/04-29-15) »
look for someone near your build and fashial structure + age .
hack his comlink and do a copy file of his sin .

Because going by the rules, you can't do this.  As a GM, I wouldn't let you do this except for a very, very desperate situation - 'save the city' sort of thing.  Why you can't do it is up to the GM - the SIN is copy-encrypted, and the act of trying to do so alters the encryption, and thus screws with the SIN inside.  Or perhaps the SIN is partially hardwired - flash-burned into a SIM card and loaded into the commlink at the time of purchase.  Whatever the reason, straight-up identity theft via commlink hack isn't allowed.  Identity theft via knocking the guy over the head, grabbing his commlink, and going off as him might work, so long as you aren't actually required to provide biometric samples - voice- or fingerprint is fastest, retina print is of course more secure.  But actually doing anything but walking past a SIN scanner - i.e. getting into an area - is going to require at least a passcode which, you not being the owner, aren't going to know.

Going back to what you could do; with the Forgery skill and appropriate knowledge skills, it would make sense that someone could attempt to forge a person's SIN when they know all / enough of the info encoded into a SIN. Or they could prepare a SIN that would be flagged as a forgery the first time it was checked against GSR records.
You could, yes.  Anyone with a minimum of skill could create a no-support 'Fake SIN', but what the heck would be the point of that, except to get someone arrested or shot?

... okay, so that could a good reason to do it.
Pananagutan & End/Line

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Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
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Novocrane

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« Reply #24 on: (00:55:10/04-30-15) »
Why else? It relies on two points. First, that SIN numbers can be sixth world checksum'd - just throwing any old number at a SIN checker shouldn't be enough to get it to ask the GSR. Second, if a SIN checker can validate the number, then not everyone is going to run them online - usually those who want the appearance of legitimate business without turning away illegal (but paying) customers.

Xenon

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« Reply #25 on: (03:48:52/04-30-15) »
You can create and broadcast a forged SIN that give you a positive dice pool modifier of 1 or 2 dice when taking a Con test because Character have plausible-seeming evidence.

It will, however, instantly be revealed as a forgery by a SIN verification system (p. 146 for details).

Novocrane

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« Reply #26 on: (04:43:40/04-30-15) »
If they're actually checking SINs, when has "I have a SIN (not really!)" ever been the requisite step to not being checked?

The SIN verification level of 'Do you have a SIN?' has a chance to burn a poorly made fake SIN, and (as you said) always burns a forgery. That's very poor for customer retention when SINless with bad fakes are your customer base. I'd go as far as saying that logging a validated SIN number and checking a SIN would be two different things in such places.
« Last Edit: (04:45:25/04-30-15) by Novocrane »

Xenon

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« Reply #27 on: (08:04:58/04-30-15) »
Maybe your PAN can broadcast that your name is Bob the Security Guard. You walk up to the security post. Dressed as a security guard.
"Hi, I am Bob the security Guard. Open up please".
Player roll Con test and depending on the success GM might respond with either:
"Welcome Bob the Security Guard"
or
"Bob the Security Guard you say? Stand by for standard SIN Verification, please".

Novocrane

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« Reply #28 on: (16:55:38/04-30-15) »
Or it could just be checked as you queue for the security checkpoint / enter the facility.

You're broadcasting. It's wireless. By the time you're talking to someone that works in security, it should have happened already.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #29 on: (02:45:03/05-01-15) »
I tend to think that there's two types of scanning/checking.  The first one is the actual scanner.  This is what you normally see just walking down the street - rating 1 or 2 at most.  The first is a R1 - 'Is this person broadcasting a SIN?  Great.'  The more expensive (R2) ones are going to check a) whether or not your SIN has the permissions to be there (i.e. your SIN is broadcasting a certain KIND of SIN, such as an Ares SIN) and/or b) if your gender, race, and metatype match the SIN.

When you're getting to the security checkpoint, though, you're looking at something higher - 3, 4, or more.  I'd put a R3 on any 'entering corporate territory' checkpoint, even if that's at a public-access mall or something.  If you're trying to get into an actual corporate-only building, that's a 4, maybe a 5.  And at any time, if you're claiming that you're actual security, I'd have it bump the check to a R6 check.

So I guess my concept isn't so much that the scanner itself is a rating, but that the check it's performing has one.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.