[Kazordan]

My TechnoRigger has a GM Nissan Doberman with an Ares MP-LMG mounted in its factory supplied weapon mount.  The LMG is a high velocity weapon.

Does recoil affect this drone or any vehicle with a weapon mount?  I would think recoil isn't the same for drones and vehicles as it is for characters holding the weapon.

Thanks in advance for your help.

p.s.  I am rather new to SR.  Is there any website / forum out there that can provide me any tutorial advice on playing a technomancer / rigger?  Thanks again.

[Chaemera]

The answer is, "GM's Call", based on whether or not the GM considers the LMG too large for a Doberman to use without issue. Here's the relevant RAW:

Theoretically, vehicle weapons mounted in a weapon mount (p. 146) do not suffer negative recoil modifiers, but this can lead to strange results when a very large gun is mounted on a very small vehicle. For example it is possible to install a weapon mount with an LMG onto a small drone with a body rating of 2 (cat-sized) and suffering no recoil effects from full auto fire, where a normal human would have trouble holding the weapon let alone successfully hitting anything. In instances like this, it is perfectly all right for the gamemaster to apply negative modifiers equal to those a person shooting the weapon would suffer from recoil, counting in the vehicle’s mass (as a rule of thumb: its Body rating) as recoil compensation.

Emphasis Mine.

[Kontact]

Arsenal also says:

Medium drones range from
large dog to human or motorcycle-sized. They are unable to carry
an adult metahuman, though they could potentially carry a child
or small dwarf.

So, how big is a medium drone?  Pretty big.
And a fixed mount like the Doberman comes with is some pretty heavy stabilization.
For comparison, a tripod accessory will give you 6 points of recoil reduction.

Just something to consider when you're looking to bring a drone's RC down to body.

Honestly, most drones should have more body...  What makes an Otomo half again tougher than a mini-tank like the Steel Lynx...

Anyway, he should have room enough for an auto-adjusting underbarrel weight for an extra 2 pts of RC at minimal cost.  Total of 10pts RC is plenty close enough to make all that high-velocity goodness happen.

[Kazordan]

Thanks for there reference point.  Only thing to add for at least the Doberman is that it specifically says that its weapon mount will fit a LMG.  So I would think that it wouldn't suffer any recoil unless I tried to put something larger than an LMG in it.

Sound logical?

[Chaemera]

I wouldn't even consider recoil penalties on a doberman unless you were talking about assault cannons, and only one of those is able to experience recoil (Thunderstruck Gauss Rifle, SA ROF, Arsenal, pg. 30). There, I might (MIGHT) consider making you take the -1 penalty when you shoot a second time that round.

A four-legged, armored combat drone should have no issues using pretty big guns.

Honestly, most drones should have more body...  What makes an Otomo half again tougher than a mini-tank like the Steel Lynx...

Yes, yes, and triple-mega yes. Just about every vehicle I've seen has a low body to my mind. Then again. the SR4 scale is more or less supposed to be logarithmic, as best I can figure. That is to say, Strength 4 is ten times stronger than Strength 3, not .33 times stronger.

[The_Gun_Nut]

That doesn't add up.  For one thing, a character with strength 4 cannot carry 10 times what someone with strength 3 is able to carry.  If that were true, then a human with strength 5 would be 100 times as strong as the average person, and a human with STR 6 (Olympic level champion weightlifter) would be able to move around 1000 times as much as "Joe Average."  Per pg. 139 of SR4A,

A character can lift off the ground 15 kilograms per point of Strength without making a test.

...

A character can lift 5 kilograms per point of Strength over her head without making a test.

...

Characters can lift and carry their Strength x 10 kilograms in weight without any sort of test.

The scale here is clearly linear, and not logarithmic in any way.  Thirty kilos of gear is a lot, by the way, so STR 3 isn't exactly gimped.  As for a weapon platform kind of drone, just how much equipment does it need to carry?  The Otomo needs to be versatile enough to carry whatever equipment it needs for a particular mission into the field.  It also has NO armor to protect it's body, unlike the Lynx, which will shrug off small arms fire easily (AP rounds notwithstanding).  Each chassis has a particular mission it is designed for.

[Chaemera]

My mistake for saying "supposed to be" logarithmic. The fluff puts it at logarithmic, though I admit that log base 10 would be too extreme, describing scale where the difference between an olympic weight lifter and a normal person is 4 measly points of Strength on a 1 - 6 scale. There is no rational way that the degree of human capability can be expressed on so small a scale except logarithmically.

However, the RAW, as you have reminded me, is linear.

[Kot]

Chemaera, that Olympic Weightlifter has also Athletics based Weightlifting skill of 6 probably, with a Specialty in his favorite technique.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I do think anthroform drones should have greater strength than a human, but not as much hauling capacity as an actual vehicle.

[Chaemera]

Chemaera, that Olympic Weightlifter has also Athletics based Weightlifting skill of 6 probably, with a Specialty in his favorite technique.

There is no "athletics based weightlifting skill", Kot. There's Climbing, Gymnastics (specifically limited to acrobatics, balance, and jumping), Running and Swimming. There's (non-athletics) also Diving and Parachuting. By the RAW, an olympic weightlifter can lift overhead, without making a check, 30 kg. If he wants to lift 31 kg, he rolls Str + Bod and needs at least one hit. Probably not hard, but the point remains that he could, at that point, fail to lift overhead less than a US marine marches into battle with. To me, that just doesn't add up.

But, this is getting pretty off topic for me having made a mistake (thinking in terms of Fluff vs RAW), so we probably ought to re-direct back to the core conversation.

[The_Gun_Nut]

I think it's pertinent, Chaemera.  While a Weightlifting skill probably isn't strictly necessary for Shadowrunners (and thus, not included in the ruleset), it could be inserted and used as a substitute for the STR attribute in the die roll or the base weight calculation.  Thus, Kot's example would work if using this extra, houseruled skill.

Given that it's a houserule, then individual GM's would have to OK it.  It isn't overpowered or inappropriate, however, so I imagine that few would say "no dice."

I can see the skill being included in an anthroform's program, allowing it greater weight capacity.  I don't see it allowing the anthroform to manage recoil better, just allow it to better manage carrying equipment and the weapon systems.

[Kot]

What he said. Rules don't let unaugumented humans lift as much as weightlifters do. So, there should be something like that.
I was just pointing at the fact, that weightlifting isn't something to compare with, as it escapes the 'average human' angle.
And off course drones will have more raw power than any human. Their Body stat is just an outline, that simulates their design, and sturdiness. A Body 3 drone will be able to exert at least twice as much 'strength', as a Strength 3 human, because it's not limited by flesh and bones, only by it's design and power output.

[Wraith235]

I think somewhere its mentioned that the baseline general rule is body X 2 for Recoil .... I dont recall where that is .... but I just seem to recall that #

[Chaemera]

I think it's pertinent, Chaemera.  While a Weightlifting skill probably isn't strictly necessary for Shadowrunners (and thus, not included in the ruleset), it could be inserted and used as a substitute for the STR attribute in the die roll or the base weight calculation.  Thus, Kot's example would work if using this extra, houseruled skill.

Given that it's a houserule, then individual GM's would have to OK it.  It isn't overpowered or inappropriate, however, so I imagine that few would say "no dice."

I can see the skill being included in an anthroform's program, allowing it greater weight capacity.  I don't see it allowing the anthroform to manage recoil better, just allow it to better manage carrying equipment and the weapon systems.

Oh, I agree that a weightlifting-type skill, used in the manner you're talking about would be a wonderful way to adress the issue. I only say it's not pertinent because I was speaking to what I saw as the flawed logic of such a small linear scale of ability. There's a reason IQ tests range from 0 - 200+, and it's not to make the smart people feel cool for having such big numbers. I don't expect a game to get to that level of detail, which is why I assumed, based on the fluff about 1 = wimpy, 6 = olympian, that the game used logarithmic scales. And I still think it would have made more sense.

But, the game works as-is, and other than, perhaps, incorporating a weightlifting skill as a house-rule for someone who wants to play "badass strongman", I see no reason on my part to further harass a rules system that seems to get too much harassment already.

I think somewhere its mentioned that the baseline general rule is body X 2 for Recoil .... I dont recall where that is .... but I just seem to recall that #

That tickles my memory, too. Odd thing is, it sounds almost like a nWOD rule... I know they're pretty clear in Arsenal that the effective limit is "infinity, or whatever the GM says" on page 105. Maybe this is something they inserted into War!?

[Kontact]

Well, the optional rule listed in Arsenal is that it's RC = bod. 
Problem with that is that either the suggested recoil is too low compared to other similar stabilizer options (gyro-harness, tripod) or that Bod scores for these machines are just too low.