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Disincentives for Squatter/Street lifestyles?

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Shaidar

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« Reply #45 on: <01-28-15/1526:32> »
For choice of MRE I'd say a barely palatable one would be preferable, for illustrating the point.

Quote from: SR5 Core pg369
the nutrisoy may not taste great, but at least it’s hot.

I chose Tofu because I felt that was the closest modern analog to Nutrisoy.

Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #46 on: <01-28-15/1550:25> »
Then yeah, the nasty omlet thing mention earlier. Mm, Tutu (not) make sure it is low quality tofu as well.

Also, the idea of a free sin based on low + does help counter some of the benefits of choose street/squatter other than RP/GM fiat. But honestly, Hobbo with a shotgun is the funniest NQ I have found (and my Sum of 10 Troll Mage has it).
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for ¥1 million/4 once.

Emperors Grace

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« Reply #47 on: <01-28-15/1649:51> »
What I did to counter it: At low  lifestyle the player got a free rating 2 SIN, at middle, he got a free rating 4, and at high he got a free rating 6 (or 5 if he chose not to give his DNA to strangers)

Also makes a bit of sense as to how one got the lifestyle.

It never made sense to me that someone could have a high lifestyle with no clean high level SIN.

rednblack

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« Reply #48 on: <01-28-15/1753:57> »
What I did to counter it: At low  lifestyle the player got a free rating 2 SIN, at middle, he got a free rating 4, and at high he got a free rating 6 (or 5 if he chose not to give his DNA to strangers)

That's a fucking bargain.  1 month's rent and a level 4 fake SIN for half the price of the SIN by itself.  Sign me up.
« Last Edit: <01-28-15/1828:30> by rednblack »
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« Reply #49 on: <01-28-15/1802:44> »
Have to admit, those in my games that take "Street" and "squatter" lifestyles generally don't stay there for long... But then again I play up the dystopian setting a fair bit and make sure it is there in the face for all to see...


For those who don't want/like the RP side, it eventually sinks in from a mathematical side. The cost of the lifestyle upgrade out weighs the cost of replacing lost gear from theft. Over comes the hassle of paying for travel. And covers their food costs which they would be deducting every day, all day long. (or deducting a larger flat "food and crap" tithe daily). 
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Shaidar

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« Reply #50 on: <01-28-15/1817:20> »
What I did to counter it: At low  lifestyle the player got a free rating 2 SIN, at middle, he got a free rating 4, and at high he got a free rating 6 (or 5 if he chose not to give his DNA to strangers)

Correct me if I'm wrong but SR4's Runners Companion gave a SIN (real or fake) as a prerequisite for Lifestyles.

Quote from: RC pg160
BEING SINLESS
Being SINless in the ‘70s severely limits a character’s lifestyle. Neighborhoods at a Middle rating and above will require all metahumans to broadcast their SINs and IDs in all public places. In addition, to legally rent or buy any apartment requires a SIN, as do a myriad of other activities of daily life—such as buying groceries, riding the bus, downloading sims, and having utilities.  e only way to get around this basic fact of life is to live in a neighborhood where you can pay by certi ed cred or barter—generally Street or Squatter neighborhoods, with the occasional small gang-controlled territory.
Because of this, having a fake SIN is a necessity to get out of the barrens and slums of the Sixth World. However, the level of your fake SIN and ID restricts your ability to access the nicer things in life. In game terms, you can only choose categories that are one point higher than the rating of your fake SIN. A runner with a Rating 2 fake SIN could only live in a Middle (3 LP) Neighborhood and could only take the other categories at a rating of 3.
A character with no SIN (real or fake) is limited to a total lifestyle cost of 7 Lifestyle Points or less, including qualities.

I have as of yet been unable to find the corosponding passage in Run Faster.

rednblack

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« Reply #51 on: <01-28-15/1826:18> »
Have to admit, those in my games that take "Street" and "squatter" lifestyles generally don't stay there for long... But then again I play up the dystopian setting a fair bit and make sure it is there in the face for all to see...

Do you play up any dystopian downsides for higher lifestyles?  I ask because dystopian lit is in my field of study, and most protagonists in dystopian novels are from middle or higher levels.  Winston from 1984 is the obvious example, and he goes to hang with the proles to get out from under the watchful eye of Big Brother.  In The Handmaid's Tale, Offred exists entirely in a High lifestyle area, which makes her potential involvement with Mayday much more dangerous.  Ditto that for the MaddAddam trilogy, which covers characters from all walks of life

For those who don't want/like the RP side, it eventually sinks in from a mathematical side. The cost of the lifestyle upgrade out weighs the cost of replacing lost gear from theft. Over comes the hassle of paying for travel. And covers their food costs which they would be deducting every day, all day long. (or deducting a larger flat "food and crap" tithe daily).

This makes perfect sense to me.  Unless there's a really good reason for being on the streets, why would a successful runner do otherwise?  There's a part of me, though, that thinks a bunch of runners in a Middle lifestyle area is also kinda like a bunch of runners who are awakened.  In a corp-run dystopian future like SR, the middle class has got to be exceptionally small, I would think.

I ask the above because I've really appreciated and learned from what you've offered in this thread so far.
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« Reply #52 on: <01-28-15/1849:19> »
Have to admit, those in my games that take "Street" and "squatter" lifestyles generally don't stay there for long... But then again I play up the dystopian setting a fair bit and make sure it is there in the face for all to see...

Do you play up any dystopian downsides for higher lifestyles?  I ask because dystopian lit is in my field of study, and most protagonists in dystopian novels are from middle or higher levels.  Winston from 1984 is the obvious example, and he goes to hang with the proles to get out from under the watchful eye of Big Brother.  In The Handmaid's Tale, Offred exists entirely in a High lifestyle area, which makes her potential involvement with Mayday much more dangerous.  Ditto that for the MaddAddam trilogy, which covers characters from all walks of life

For those who don't want/like the RP side, it eventually sinks in from a mathematical side. The cost of the lifestyle upgrade out weighs the cost of replacing lost gear from theft. Over comes the hassle of paying for travel. And covers their food costs which they would be deducting every day, all day long. (or deducting a larger flat "food and crap" tithe daily).

This makes perfect sense to me.  Unless there's a really good reason for being on the streets, why would a successful runner do otherwise?  There's a part of me, though, that thinks a bunch of runners in a Middle lifestyle area is also kinda like a bunch of runners who are awakened.  In a corp-run dystopian future like SR, the middle class has got to be exceptionally small, I would think.

I ask the above because I've really appreciated and learned from what you've offered in this thread so far.


As to playing the Up side? Depends. It's easier for someone from a high lifestyle to pass in a lower lifestyle then it is the other way around. After all, anyone can shop at Value Village for some used clothes, throw some dirt and mud on them, piss on them, then let them dry for that Hobo look. (especially if they don't bath during that week). But it takes money to shop at Ares-Gucci, Money that the hobo doesn't have. (of course, players are different, and one of the OP's character could buy the tres-chic lines if he wanted. Keeping them looking good would be the problem there)

However, if they foolish to wear a Tres-chic outfit to the Barrens? Violence will probably ensue. But just plain old bigotry? Yep. As you move farther away from the "Norms" that you look like you fit into, the more problem you will have. Especially as the sun goes down. 
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

farothel

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« Reply #53 on: <01-29-15/0503:05> »
What I did to counter it: At low  lifestyle the player got a free rating 2 SIN, at middle, he got a free rating 4, and at high he got a free rating 6 (or 5 if he chose not to give his DNA to strangers)

That's a fucking bargain.  1 month's rent and a level 4 fake SIN for half the price of the SIN by itself.  Sign me up.

Maybe, but you have to keep that SIN completely clean, or you loose your lifestyle with it.  So you will need others to do the actual runs.
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Mr. Black

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« Reply #54 on: <01-31-15/0247:51> »
I have mentioned before that I use Life Style tests for my players. Street is 1 dice, squatter is 2 dice, etc. Critical glitches mean bad things happen (flat tire, cops pull you over, gangers attack, etc.). I use it when the character is traveling around, especially in neighborhoods that do not match the character's life style. One of my reasons is having lived through some Low to High times myself. Low lifestyle people just don't have the money for car repair/maintenance, nor do they have prepaid tow/start systems, such as AAA. A breakdown/flat will strand them for hours. Middle can afford regular oil changes and such, and generally have AAA. High and Luxury have back-up cars, people who attend to regular maintenance, and tend to avoid "bad" neighborhoods. A GM who is feeling lenient could make it a Life Style+Edge test.

This test could also be reversed for poor neighborhoods, i.e., Luxury Life Style in the barrens rolls 1 dice, High 2 dice, etc. This could represent the increased attention flashy cars get in rough areas. Gangers are sure to know that a real nice car has occupants with real nice jewelry and gear, making robberies more enticing.

halflingmage

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« Reply #55 on: <01-31-15/2205:21> »
I would have a bigger problem with a player intentionally staying at street rater than squatter.  Street is literally homeless, you are living in a cardboard box or under and overpass.  You are filthy, half starved, and generally pathetic.  You would have to be borderline mentally ill to stay at street if you had money for better, physical hunger if nothing else would drive you.  If a player really insists, hit him with consequences.  The bouncer won't let you into the club or restaurant for the meet.  The Johnson gives you one look and refuses to pay a nuyen more no matter what you roll on negotiations.  You get penalties to your healing rolls because you can't get any decent sleep.  Want to get really nasty?  Don't let them spend karma on anything that requires practice or study, because they don't have the means or the focus to do it.  You aren't going to initiate if you are begging in front of the stuffer shack for a mircowave burrito.  Another place to hit them where they live- no comlink service for street lifestyle.  And everything, everything, they consume, every beverage, water, decent food, bus ticket, cab ride, etc, will come out of their operational funds.

Also, keep in mind that a character who depends on a magical lodge, or external gear like drones or vehicles need to a place to keep them and work on them.  Are you a decker?  If anyone  from under the overpass catches on that you have a honest to spirits cyberdeck they will get ten of their friends and beat you to death in your sleep because the parts from it, broken and split ten ways still fences for more money than they will see in a year. 

Squatter I can almost live with as a GM however.  A character that is constantly on the move, alternating between living in a vehicle, grabbing a sleep cube now and then, and taking a weekly or twice weekly shower at a truck stop is probably living a squatter lifestyle.  You have the same magic lodge/drone workshop issues as the street guy does, and you can't own anything that doesn't fit in the trunk of a car, but you have at lock between you and the world when you sleep most of the time.  It has the advantage that you are hard to find.  By being constantly on the move  you never have KE kicking in the door to your doss (well, maybe not never, its just less likely). 

A way to combat both of these conditions as well is to have some playtime devoted to things that happen between runs.  Runners have friends, hobbies, downtime activities, etc.  If there is no work for a few weeks the street guy is going to get very tired of doing nothing but running from devil rats and eating from a dumpster. 
« Last Edit: <01-31-15/2234:10> by halflingmage »

brasso

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« Reply #56 on: <02-07-15/1535:23> »
I have mentioned before that I use Life Style tests for my players. Street is 1 dice, squatter is 2 dice, etc. Critical glitches mean bad things happen (flat tire, cops pull you over, gangers attack, etc.). I use it when the character is traveling around, especially in neighborhoods that do not match the character's life style.

*Like* This adds a bit of in-game consequences to lifestyle decisions. A filthy street rat walking around downtown would soon attract attention of the nightstick variety I think, and this could simulate it nicely :)
The system we learn says we're equal under law
But the streets are reality, the weak and poor will fall

Tarislar

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« Reply #57 on: <02-08-15/0011:25> »
There's just this one player in particular is a technomancer so he's really flush with cash (I'm not sure he even owns a pistol, and has cheap armor to boot) and is still living as a squatter. He's got ~25,000¥ and still lives like a bum. The other party members have between 2,000-10,000¥ at any time, and it's hard not to throw a glance in his direction and think, "hey if there's no reason not to, why don't I downgrade my lifestyle?". So it's not like this guy is trying to save up for some big purchase and resents the lack of money. He literally complains about not having anything to do with his money. He's just min/maxing and picking the lowest lifestyle option since there haven't been any drawbacks that actually bother him. I want to nip that sentiment in the bud before it spreads and everyone thinks about doing the same- especially since everybody else actually needs that money.
So he's living on the streets & doesn't own a pistol?
Yeah, that's just asking for some "after hours" gang violence if you ask me.




I have mentioned before that I use Life Style tests for my players. Street is 1 dice, squatter is 2 dice, etc. Critical glitches mean bad things happen (flat tire, cops pull you over, gangers attack, etc.). I use it when the character is traveling around, especially in neighborhoods that do not match the character's life style. 

*Like* This adds a bit of in-game consequences to lifestyle decisions. A filthy street rat walking around downtown would soon attract attention of the nightstick variety I think, and this could simulate it nicely :) 
Agreed, I like this one.

Glyph

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« Reply #58 on: <02-08-15/0243:26> »
You might seem a bit of a dick if you pick on him too much, but really, someone without the ability to defend himself choosing to live on the dangerous streets, just out of frugality, is asking for it.  Forget gangs, crooked cops, devil rats, and ghouls - even a pack of street kids, or another squatter who wants that nice dry spot under the bridge, are a danger to him.  On the bright side, after he gets inevitably mugged by someone, he won't have that problem of not knowing what to do with his money any longer.

north

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« Reply #59 on: <02-08-15/0905:49> »
Is it possible that he just doesn't know what he wants to spend his cash?  I mean maybe he doesn't want a higher lifestyle because he doesn't think his PC should be in the upper part of town.  Maybe he's trying to lay low.  Has he looked up in run faster about how lifestyle works?  What he may want is a traveler lifestyle like as in "on the run" , "pay with cash", "don't leave a data trapeople.  After all he knows how to track people using the grid, and TM's do have a reason to be ... shall we say valuable to the right people.