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Run Faster Out!

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Kincaid

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« Reply #60 on: <12-20-14/1832:54> »
I have absolutely no idea if this is in the works, but it makes sense to me to include modular chargen blocks in location books as a way of combining fluff and crunch.

In terms of karma vs priority: it really depends.  If you're building a physical troll, you're probably better off with priority because the higher-level attributes cost a ton.  On the other hand, other archetypes are more efficient with karma--I suspect we've all built a character and had one or two attribute points too few or too many.
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callmedinosaur

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« Reply #61 on: <12-20-14/1937:06> »

There's no reason to think that you won't see AIs, Free Spirits, and Drakes back in the game as playable characters in later content updates.  Fact is, I wasn't trying to single anyone out - that's why I have included all three of the "special snowflakes" that weren't included in my list.  I can think of several reasons why some content wasn't included in this book.  I was not trying to piss anyone off.  I was pointing out, in my own convoluted fashion, that these three types of characters weren't tremendously popular (to my knowledge) and therefore may have been cut out of this book for just that reason.  If anyone took that personally, I apologize - that was not my intention.  As I stated, nothing that I said was intended to be personal.


no worries friend, no offense taken, i feel we agree more than we disagree on this tbh

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Giabralter

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« Reply #62 on: <12-20-14/1958:39> »
I have absolutely no idea if this is in the works, but it makes sense to me to include modular chargen blocks in location books as a way of combining fluff and crunch.

Brilliant!

Lusis

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« Reply #63 on: <12-20-14/2020:30> »
I have absolutely no idea if this is in the works, but it makes sense to me to include modular chargen blocks in location books as a way of combining fluff and crunch.

I'm hoping that this is why they neglected to include a Life Module for Aztlan and CFS.
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Sendaz

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« Reply #64 on: <12-20-14/2033:57> »
I have absolutely no idea if this is in the works, but it makes sense to me to include modular chargen blocks in location books as a way of combining fluff and crunch.

I'm hoping that this is why they neglected to include a Life Module for Aztlan and CFS.
An updated Aztlan location book would be awesome.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #65 on: <12-20-14/2251:22> »
I know location books haven't always sold well in the past, but if there is included content like life modules, it would probably sell a lot better.
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Fable

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« Reply #66 on: <12-21-14/0028:14> »
*quote clipped*

*quote clipped*


*quote clipped*

There's no reason to think that you won't see AIs, Free Spirits, and Drakes back in the game as playable characters in later content updates.  Fact is, I wasn't trying to single anyone out - that's why I have included all three of the "special snowflakes" that weren't included in my list.  I can think of several reasons why some content wasn't included in this book.  I was not trying to piss anyone off.  I was pointing out, in my own convoluted fashion, that these three types of characters weren't tremendously popular (to my knowledge) and therefore may have been cut out of this book for just that reason.  If anyone took that personally, I apologize - that was not my intention.  As I stated, nothing that I said was intended to be personal.

Let's be clear, this topic is important, so I tend to treat it as such.  I do not jump to conclusions, and I refuse to make a decision without sufficient evidence.  There have been people on these forums (thankfully they haven't appeared recently) that have argued that the existence of the Shadow Spells PDF and the content within it (some of which was deliberately taken out of Street Grimoire) was some sort of conspiracy to get us to buy more stuff.  If I seem aggressive in my defense of the decision to remove content that was in Runner's Companion, it's simply because I have gotten into these kinds of arguments in the past and I want to head them off before they go down the crazy rabbit hole.

Now to discuss why some content from Runner's Companion is not present in Run Faster.  I'll start with one of my favorite quotes:  "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor.  Another great one is this: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Argument from Ignorance.  Between those two cautionary logical positions, there can be myriad reasons why the content wasn't included.  But the one that seems least likely to be the case is that Catalyst has decided to forgo support of this content completely.  Is it possible?  Sure.  But is it likely?  Not really.

In many cases, the main content books have been Missions-legal (with a few changes), whereas the PDF books are not Missions-legal.  So the decision may have been made to put these character types in later content for just that reason too.  Or perhaps they got to 255 pages and decided that enough was enough?  Or maybe they decided that those rules needed more work?  Or...  Or...  you get my point.  There are probably dozens of reasons why something doesn't go into a book.  And probably three or four of them that are correct.

But rather than discuss it logically, people like to jump to conclusions.  People like to assume that the lack of content for ... say, a German life module, would indicate that Catalyst is somehow not supporting German-related content.  It's just not logical to leap to these types of conclusions based on the lack of evidence.

My problem is this. When Shadowrun moved from 3rd to 4th, they also moved the timeline forward by several years. It was an implied "hey, retire your characters". I have players who have played their 4th ed characters for several years. I can't just go to those characters (one of whom, yes, plays a Free Spirit) and say "Well, you have to dump your character, because there's no rules support for you in 5th."

The notion that they might put it in later books? Okay, sure, great. But I've already had to hold off switching to 5th since it came out because of this issue. So the fact that they still give me nothing, in the book I was expecting it to be in? Yeah, that's off-putting.

I don't think it's too much to ask, as paying customers, to at least get an idea of what is or isn't GOING to be supported in an edition. For example, if you're not going to support Free Spirits (or Drakes, or AI, or whatever), then TELL US that, so we can plan and move ahead. Similarly, if you ARE going to support it, say that, and give us at least a ballpark of what we're looking at. I would have been content (not happy, but accepting), if they said "Oh, hey, we'll be putting Free Spirit character info in Magic: Ebb and Flow, coming to you mid 2015" then for me to get the corebook...no support...Street Grimoire...no support...Run Faster...no support...and no idea if ANY support is coming at all. I can understand "hey, we're working on it and it will take some time to get to you". But the total lack of a roadmap or knowing if it's going to be supported at all? THAT isn't acceptable to me, if they want me to keep giving them my money.

KraakenDazs

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« Reply #67 on: <12-21-14/0207:25> »
Okay... ive been waiting for Run Faster for months and months down, so could anyone who's already purchased it, and who's unbiased (sorry all the freelancers, die-hard fans and other CGL employees floating around the forum :P) give me a quick review? I understand it's been an hectic (2) Year(s) (and a half) of Shadowrun. (And having co-owned a small mobile gaming company in the past...yeah. Shit happens, payroll issues happen, people don't make good on their deadlines and promises, etc... ) So basically, *delays* happens. All the time. And while i subscribe to Fable's ideology that a road map would seriously make up for a lot of it...silence and distance from direct customers is also just as valid a business plan, and i can't judge it because it's not how *I* would do things.

So i really want to give Run Faster a shot (And basically give 5th ed a new shot), buuuut i'm the kind of person who needs to be okay with the bad before i can enjoy the good. I also understand everything comes with some bad....i just can't stand people sweeping it under the rug and acting like it's not there :P

So could anyone who's purchased it indulge my inner whiner-baby and give me a quick review? Whats good, whats bad, whats old, whats new, whats missing?


My main concerns are:

1-Editing: Is it any good?
Since Street Grimoire i made a vow to myself that i would not spend money to any more shoddy editing. And wether or not i blame anyone or understand the reason behind why and how such obvious editing mistakes happened...bottom line is, i hated it, despised it, and im not spending a dime on similar quality product every again. My decision alone, and i dont claim to speak for the run-of-the-mill customer or anyone else. If editing's bad...i just can't enjoy the rules behind them, no matter how awesome.

2-Rules: Any conflicts? Does it resolve any previous issues/ Breaks new things? I was happy to hear the Equipement book fixed the grenade dodging rules, and it did alleviate a massive frustration i had with the general brokeness of the system. Michael Chandra's link in his signature alleviated most of the rest as well...but yeah. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...i end  a little paranoid and bitter :P

3-So this is the char-gen book, bringing out all the weird stuff. I've already seen AIs, Drakes and Free Spirits aren't included. I can live with that. Would've preferred an head's up, but yeah.So...anything else is missing from the 4ed equivalent? What's new, if anything?

4-I saw this book as the last ''official'' book i needed to give 5e in general a new shot. I figure when the rigger and cybertech book comes out, ill just include it in game as the launch of the latest ''Gen'' of tech in-game. I couldnt really do that without char gen or magic, but its easily doable with equipment, cyber, and tech. So this question is a little bit more of a wild card. To anyone answering my questions, what do YOU feel is currently ''missing'' in 5e, CORE or otherwise?
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

MijRai

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« Reply #68 on: <12-21-14/0232:36> »
Okay... ive been waiting for Run Faster for months and months down, so could anyone who's already purchased it, and who's unbiased (sorry all the freelancers, die-hard fans and other CGL employees floating around the forum :P) give me a quick review? I understand it's been an hectic (2) Year(s) (and a half) of Shadowrun. (And having co-owned a small mobile gaming company in the past...yeah. Shit happens, payroll issues happen, people don't make good on their deadlines and promises, etc... ) So basically, *delays* happens. All the time. And while i subscribe to Fable's ideology that a road map would seriously make up for a lot of it...silence and distance from direct customers is also just as valid a business plan, and i can't judge it because it's not how *I* would do things.

So i really want to give Run Faster a shot (And basically give 5th ed a new shot), buuuut i'm the kind of person who needs to be okay with the bad before i can enjoy the good. I also understand everything comes with some bad....i just can't stand people sweeping it under the rug and acting like it's not there :P

So could anyone who's purchased it indulge my inner whiner-baby and give me a quick review? Whats good, whats bad, whats old, whats new, whats missing?


My main concerns are:

1-Editing: Is it any good?
Since Street Grimoire i made a vow to myself that i would not spend money to any more shoddy editing. And wether or not i blame anyone or understand the reason behind why and how such obvious editing mistakes happened...bottom line is, i hated it, despised it, and im not spending a dime on similar quality product every again. My decision alone, and i dont claim to speak for the run-of-the-mill customer or anyone else. If editing's bad...i just can't enjoy the rules behind them, no matter how awesome.

2-Rules: Any conflicts? Does it resolve any previous issues/ Breaks new things? I was happy to hear the Equipement book fixed the grenade dodging rules, and it did alleviate a massive frustration i had with the general brokeness of the system. Michael Chandra's link in his signature alleviated most of the rest as well...but yeah. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice...i end  a little paranoid and bitter :P

3-So this is the char-gen book, bringing out all the weird stuff. I've already seen AIs, Drakes and Free Spirits aren't included. I can live with that. Would've preferred an head's up, but yeah.So...anything else is missing from the 4ed equivalent? What's new, if anything?

4-I saw this book as the last ''official'' book i needed to give 5e in general a new shot. I figure when the rigger and cybertech book comes out, ill just include it in game as the launch of the latest ''Gen'' of tech in-game. I couldnt really do that without char gen or magic, but its easily doable with equipment, cyber, and tech. So this question is a little bit more of a wild card. To anyone answering my questions, what do YOU feel is currently ''missing'' in 5e, CORE or otherwise?

I, as a fan who isn't die-hard, would say it's totally worth it. 
1. Editing is great, I remember only two minor typographical concerns in the 255 pages, myself.  The layout is both easy to use and functional, and I had no quibbles there.

2.  There aren't any glaring conflicts, last I checked, nor are there any new broken toys for folks to play with.  Things like Arcane Arrester are nerfed (in a good way). 

3.  The lack of drakes, AIs and free spirits are pretty much the big leap as compared to the Runner's Companion.  Something new would be how Infected are handled, as you don't generally start with all of their powers; there's a Karma cost to 'learn' them, as it were, which makes starting as an Infected much easier and less broken. 

4.  As far as what's missing, where I'm concerned?  An augmentation/gear book and a rigger book.  I personally loathe working with the Matrix, so that's not even on my radar.  However, I love me some riggers, street sams, etc. 

I've got a more thorough review on DTRPG, if you're interested. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

8-bit

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« Reply #69 on: <12-21-14/0237:13> »
3.  The lack of drakes, AIs and free spirits are pretty much the big leap as compared to the Runner's Companion.  Something new would be how Infected are handled, as you don't generally start with all of their powers; there's a Karma cost to 'learn' them, as it were, which makes starting as an Infected much easier and less broken.

I would also add that there are a few new Infected in there as well; which may or may not be interesting.

KraakenDazs

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« Reply #70 on: <12-21-14/0242:02> »
I've got a more thorough review on DTRPG, if you're interested.

Read, and it alleviated many, manyof my worries towards the book. Buying it as we speak. That review did tip the balance, thanks a ton.

If it's good, i might even suck it up, and buy the equipement book, despite the editing. I HAVE said in the past that should catalyst up their game product-wise, that i'd return to financially supporting them.  I'll stick to my words.  8)
Maybe, just maybe, concrete and Plasteel are MEANT to armor our planet, and not harm it, omae. Hydroponics can nourish our needy. And i assure you nuclear energy's been involved in getting you that fancy 'ware, chummer.Our mistake? Trading Wisdom for Greed. - Dögan "Babyface" Kross

Ursus Maior

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« Reply #71 on: <12-21-14/0355:08> »
I just want to say that I was expecting point-buy, but the "sum to 10" character creation is both unexpected and brilliant!
*thumbs up*
It was in SR3 and we used it back then. I guess my party will not re-convert their characters now, but it's nice to have it back. It makes tweaking easier, but still offers the simplicity of priorities in contrast to point-based methods.
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Ursus Maior

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« Reply #72 on: <12-21-14/0401:01> »
Quote
People like to assume that the lack of content for ... say, a German life module, would indicate that Catalyst is somehow not supporting German-related content. 

Well, it gives the Pegasus guys something to write on their own and to add to the content of Running faster :)
I used to buy the English books as hardcovers and PDFs. But maybe I'll switch to German hardcovers now. I like the extra stuff and the "Schattenkatalog" PDF-anthologies with extra addons. Plus the English -> German translation lag gave us 2050 for SR5 and maybe even Eurokrieg-Antiquitäten again. If this link is correct: http://www.shadowhelix.de/Shadowhelix:Angek%C3%BCndigte_Ver%C3%B6ffentlichungen
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Backgammon

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« Reply #73 on: <12-21-14/0825:20> »
Hobo with a shotgun possibly could be the best negative quality ever!!!!!!!!!!!.

Hehehe that's one of mine, glad you like it :)
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Backgammon

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« Reply #74 on: <12-21-14/0834:22> »
I have absolutely no idea if this is in the works, but it makes sense to me to include modular chargen blocks in location books as a way of combining fluff and crunch..

Hah, I had the exact same thought. I'll be including a life module for a certain location ebook in the works. I think, even if you don't use the life modules, they are superb for giving to players a sense of how people are. Like, you read the Tir module, and you get very concretely that humans and elves get a very different life than the other metas. I think they have a lot of value as a further layer of communicating to players what a place is like.
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