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Buy requirements and out-of-turn shopping

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LordHelmchen

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« on: (05:15:35/12-18-14) »
Greetings!

Some cards, like Spirit Guide, require to "have played a spell card this turn" to be bought.
How is the intended interaction with out-of-turn buy opportunities, like scene change (which happens after the current runner's turn ends, (Manual page 7:
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5. End Turn
Your turn is now over. If the runner to your left is the starting runner, the round is over and the team starts another round. Otherwise, the  runner to your left takes their turn. If there are no obstacles left when you end your turn, your team has completed a Scene! Look on the Mission sheet for what to do when a Scene ends.
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and Prep Work (which kicks in before the first turn of the game has started).
Rules-as-witten, those Spells can not be bought at those times, which significantly weakens the Mage's options (to a point where our Mage player has threatened not to play the Mage anymore unless we houserule this).
I would very much love to hear from the designers what is to be considered rules-as-intended in these cases.
regards,
LordHelmchen

EdgeDS

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« Reply #1 on: (10:04:55/12-18-14) »
Quote
Rules-as-witten, those Spells can not be bought at those times, which significantly weakens the Mage's options (to a point where our Mage player has threatened not to play the Mage anymore unless we houserule this).

Not a designer, so this obviously isn't a terribly meaningful reply to your specific question :)  I'm just kinda shocked at your Mage being that rude.  The rules as written for those cards limit options for anyone who has the nuyen for the card.  The Mage still has the easiest time buying them normally due to having the best chance of having a Spell card available to play. 

People aren't guaranteed a chance to buy exactly the cards they want from the Black Market, so if the Mage has to wait until his/her turn and risk losing the card to a Flipped effect, that's just the way the game goes.   Guiding Spirit is good for anyone who wants to cycle their deck more quickly.  Lightning Bolt is good for everyone.  Those cards aren't necessarily better for the Mage than anyone else, unlike Death Touch.

Jamelfr

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« Reply #2 on: (23:17:16/12-18-14) »
I knew one of the designer (SevenSpirits) answered that question some times ago and I finally found the quote : http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=17469.msg317084#msg317084

Short answer: some cards with buy requirements (such as some Spell cards) cannot be bought during the "between scenes" shopping.

After a lot of games and sessions, I can frankly say that this limitation does not weaken the Mage options by that much. Yes, it is frustrating, that I understand. Just remember that, on the other hand, the mage can be a huge monster if he gets a lucky draw (ex : playing a Stunbolt and revealing a 5+ Nuyen card to calculate the additionnal damages).IMHO, playing a mage is accepting that there are some parts of gambling and of requirements to balance the times when he gets really powerful cards and draws: it can however lead to frustrating moments. :)

Of course, nothing prevents you to houserule some parts of the game. Hope this helps and good luck in your sessions!
« Last Edit: (23:31:30/12-18-14) by Jamelfr »

LordHelmchen

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« Reply #3 on: (04:25:13/12-19-14) »
Though not what I hoped for, that is, like I wanted, a designer voice on scene change shopping. Thanks for digging that up, Jamelfr.
Will be a tough sell to our mage, but usually, we are wary of making the game easier than intended through houseruling...
Still wondering whether the Prep Work upgrade is intended to be weaker for Mages.

Jamelfr

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« Reply #4 on: (21:26:34/12-19-14) »
Though not what I hoped for, that is, like I wanted, a designer voice on scene change shopping. Thanks for digging that up, Jamelfr.
Will be a tough sell to our mage, but usually, we are wary of making the game easier than intended through houseruling...
Still wondering whether the Prep Work upgrade is intended to be weaker for Mages.

The intentions will be for the designers to talk about. That would be an interesting topic, honestly. :) :)

As for making it "easier" with houserules... When we use houserules, we also make sure that some limitations are used to balance things somehow. For example, you could make a houserule that getting a ""buy-requirements" card such as Lightning Bolt during "out-of-turn" is permitted if a player discard a Spell card prior buying the desired card. Just an idea. :)