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War!

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PeterSmith

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« Reply #30 on: (00:01:51/12-16-10) »
I end up splitting a lot of time between the BT and SR forums, and sometimes it gets tough to choose.

When in doubt, choose both!
Power corrupts.
Absolute power is kinda neat.

"Peter Smith has the deadest of deadpans and a very sly smile, making talking to him a fun game of keeping up and slinging the next subtle zinger." - Jason M. Hardy, 3 August 2015

Mystic

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« Reply #31 on: (04:22:01/12-16-10) »
*looks at the two open windows on his screen*

Yep..yep.

 ;D

Oh, Hotspots: Terra is DEFINITELY worth it.

Oh yes, yes it does...

My best friend and fellow 'Tech-ie (and who is single and with more disposable income!) has it. Scanned through it. As a Clan Snow Raven fan, the section on the Titan Shipyard battle had me feeling all sorts of geeky-warm fuzzies. Nice to see they...and the Ghost Bears *grin* could show the rest of the clans how 31st century black navy warfare was DONE. And my group have been playing Tech for the past few weeks.

Now, with the coming of WAR, I may finally have the means to bring the rest of this destructive bunch of malcontents into the Shadows....MUHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!
Bringing chaos, mayhem, and occasionally cookies to the Sixth World since 2052!

"Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it can't be hard on your clients"-Rule 38, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Schlock Mercenary.

kanislatrans

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« Reply #32 on: (21:27:52/12-17-10) »
about War! I like it. The shadow talkers are a bit off,but art is great and Echo's cover is sweet.IMO. my favorite tidbit is the Makwa Miskozi. I  am soo running a rigging Grizzly Adams character next time we play....Biodrone fraggin grizzly bear FTW...*grin*
As night descends upon the city
The streets are cold, the lights go by
And in the stories of the people
A million faces, a million lies
They'll never say they feel what you feel
That they can see the world you see
And in their faces, their expressions
A million faces, a million lies... VNV "Chrome"

Mystic

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« Reply #33 on: (00:40:35/12-18-10) »
about War! I like it. The shadow talkers are a bit off,but art is great and Echo's cover is sweet.IMO. my favorite tidbit is the Makwa Miskozi. I  am soo running a rigging Grizzly Adams character next time we play....Biodrone fraggin grizzly bear FTW...*grin*

Wait a tic...biodrone grizzly bear? Whisky Tango Foxtrot, did I hear that correct and does it mean what I THINK it means?
Bringing chaos, mayhem, and occasionally cookies to the Sixth World since 2052!

"Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it can't be hard on your clients"-Rule 38, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Schlock Mercenary.

kanislatrans

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« Reply #34 on: (01:43:06/12-18-10) »
 ;D  yeah,
IC,introducing Haggerty,ork rigger.sitting outside a Mchugh's (tm) munching a pile of Big Mike's(tm) burgers:"Me an' Boo-boo been runnin' togeather 'bout a year. Met up in injin' country way up north. I was movin' sugar in a t-bird and got tagged comin' cross the Yukon and caught a missle . Woke up with ol' Boo-boo draggin' me out of the river and though I was gonna end up bear scat.  but then he dropped me and just stared at me with those whirly lectric eyes. Seemed to me he just needed a friend, so I just held out my hand and Zap! we had a connection,kinda like a shamantic thing, ya,know? He's helped me lots. Only complaint is he eats like a,well, bear."
As night descends upon the city
The streets are cold, the lights go by
And in the stories of the people
A million faces, a million lies
They'll never say they feel what you feel
That they can see the world you see
And in their faces, their expressions
A million faces, a million lies... VNV "Chrome"

TranqFrollman

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« Reply #35 on: (21:50:42/12-18-10) »
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=18965

More details, for example about which seem to be the better essays, at http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=180641#180641

The Laughing Man

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« Reply #36 on: (16:17:58/12-22-10) »
Why is it everywhere I go I see this franktrollman guy talkin trash about shadowrun? The dude writes reviews on amazon and all kinds of places. All taking major trash about various SR products. His reviews aren't objective in the slightest and tend to point out the most trivial of things.

What's his deal?

Critias

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« Reply #37 on: (17:42:45/12-22-10) »
Why is it everywhere I go I see this franktrollman guy talkin trash about shadowrun? The dude writes reviews on amazon and all kinds of places. All taking major trash about various SR products. His reviews aren't objective in the slightest and tend to point out the most trivial of things.

What's his deal?
He used to work for them.  He doesn't any more.

Mystic

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« Reply #38 on: (01:10:46/12-23-10) »
Why is it everywhere I go I see this franktrollman guy talkin trash about shadowrun? The dude writes reviews on amazon and all kinds of places. All taking major trash about various SR products. His reviews aren't objective in the slightest and tend to point out the most trivial of things.

What's his deal?

Welcome to our reality: where anyone is free to spout off about anything, anywhere, anytime with as much venom as one wants and in many cases with as little facts as possible.

Me, as always, I will hold all my comments about content of ANY product until I have one of my own. That means, Ill have to sponge off everyone else. Unfortunately, I won't likely be getting to my copy of WAR! ('e-tron or dead tree format) anytime soon...A PDF dosen't make a good diaper for my daughter(despite some opinions to the contrary!).

Although, she does like sitting on Daddy's lap when he is reading his SR books....hmmmm.
Bringing chaos, mayhem, and occasionally cookies to the Sixth World since 2052!

"Just because it's easy for you doesn't mean it can't be hard on your clients"-Rule 38, The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries, Schlock Mercenary.

The Laughing Man

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« Reply #39 on: (04:04:07/12-23-10) »
My thoughts on War!

 This book, while good in general, leaves me with mixed feelings.

 While some of the fluff and crunch is great and the gear is awesome. (Write-ups of orbital weapons, holy shit!) It tends to lack a real focus. The book starts out describing Bogota without much warning. And to be honest the long write-up is rather boring and doesn't give too much deep information or secrets.

  After that it explains a little more about the various factions and throws out little plot hooks here and there. After reading the entire Bogota adventure section I'm disapointed not to find one map (not one?!) of the entire area. Also where's more info on the Azzies army, or the other forces? What kind of crazy paracritters and blood mages make up those platoons?

  Also the entire Bogota section really doesn't give much of a purpose to why they're even at war. Or why even wage war in that area of South America? It's nowhere near strategic for the Azzies to be overextending like that into hostile territory.

  The Bogota stuff aside (which makes up a good portion of the book), it's not all bad. I liked the write-ups on the other global hotpots. Though the way the adventure hooks are mixed in the with the fluff makes me cringe. And adding in some more actual heavy war zones would have been cool. (Albuquerque? Really?)

The leadership rules and large dice pool rules are pretty neat. And I love the composure tests for traumatic combat.

All in all it's a good book. It just lacks focus. It tends to be way too general while droning on with details, without actually giving enough meaningful information. And really misses at carving a deep meaningful story to tell within all of the mess.

(And where's the maps, man? The maps?!) [/rant]
« Last Edit: (04:08:53/12-23-10) by The Laughing Man »

hobgoblin

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« Reply #40 on: (10:50:15/12-23-10) »
Why is it everywhere I go I see this franktrollman guy talkin trash about shadowrun? The dude writes reviews on amazon and all kinds of places. All taking major trash about various SR products. His reviews aren't objective in the slightest and tend to point out the most trivial of things.

What's his deal?
He used to work for them.  He doesn't any more.
That is to put it mildly...
Want to see my flash new jacket?

MikeW

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« Reply #41 on: (13:25:12/12-23-10) »
Quote
Also the entire Bogota section really doesn't give much of a purpose to why they're even at war. Or why even wage war in that area of South America? It's nowhere near strategic for the Azzies to be overextending like that into hostile territory.

Hello, everyone.  My name is Mike Wich.  I am one of the authors for War! and just wanted to step in here and respond to The Laughing Man, and maybe clarify the reasons for the war.  A lot of the explanation for this war is contained in the section of "Bogota History," which I wrote (along with Bogota Culture, the vast majority of Bogota Neighborhoods and half of the Mercenary section). 

It is important to understand that Aztlan and Amazonia hate each other. It is a hatred that sometimes blinds them to practicalities (ie, modern day North and South Korea).  This hatred has been brewing since official hostilities ended toward 2050.  Since that time, both sides have been fighting proxy wars against one another, using whatever resources they had available to them (ie, the population of Bogota).  There were several times that all-out war *could* have been declared, but other emergencies and other priorities kept getting in the way (YoTC, Crash 2.0, etc).  In those proxy wars, both sides were doing things that were rapidly escalating the tensions. 

Spoilers Ahead:


















[Spoilers] Aztlan was intentionally seeding the forest with Diablos, to prevent Amazonia from invading and conquering Bogota. Bogota is a prize for them, and no nation really wants to lose territory and resources to anyone, especially to a hated enemy.  And there was a real (or perceived) threat of that happening during and after the Year of the Comet, when their military forces were spread so thin.  Amazonia despised having their forest altered so radically, and so they fiercely retaliated, and violence rained down on the streets of Bogota. There was a tit-for-tat response going on in that regard between 2062 and 2073.  The way the violence was being waged, all out war was all but inevitable.  The two attempted diplomacy, and an agreement was even signed, but Amazonia really failed to live up to its side of the bargin in failing to effectively police its own guerrilla cells.  I attempted to try and show that both sides were really guility of the hostilities that were happening down there, and that both sides had blood on their hands.  I find that it is better drama when both sides contribute to the start of a war.  Many people think Aztlan is the bad guy in this, where it should be understood that both contributed to the current climate, with Aztlan being a little bit more responsible for it by intentionally misleading Amazonia into attacking their lab and giving them a valid reason for a full-out war.  Strategically speaking, it is also in Aztlan's best interests to find a way of stopping this violence.  All this violence is costing them *A LOT* of nuyen.  And diplomacy wasn't working. And so, when the diplomats fail.... [/Spoilers] 

I hope I have helped to clarify the reasons for the war.  And I hope that despite various concerns with War!, this is a product that many fans can still enjoy and use for their gaming groups.

Any way, That's about it for me.  Seasons greetings and happy holidays to everyone here on the forums!       
Mike Wich, SR Freelancer
10 Jackpointers
Sixth World Almanac
03-10 Spin Control
War!
Street Legends
Artifacts Unbound
Conspiracy Theories
Horizon Adventure #3

ssjevot

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« Reply #42 on: (18:14:42/12-23-10) »
That was a great post Mike and I have to say your sections were among my favorites in the book.  Thanks for taking some of your time to help address the questions some people had.

wraith

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« Reply #43 on: (10:45:32/12-24-10) »
[Spoilers] Aztlan was intentionally seeding the forest with Diablos, to prevent Amazonia from invading and conquering Bogota. Bogota is a prize for them, and no nation really wants to lose territory and resources to anyone, especially to a hated enemy.  And there was a real (or perceived) threat of that happening during and after the Year of the Comet, when their military forces were spread so thin.  Amazonia despised having their forest altered so radically, and so they fiercely retaliated, and violence rained down on the streets of Bogota. There was a tit-for-tat response going on in that regard between 2062 and 2073.  The way the violence was being waged, all out war was all but inevitable.  The two attempted diplomacy, and an agreement was even signed, but Amazonia really failed to live up to its side of the bargin in failing to effectively police its own guerrilla cells.  I attempted to try and show that both sides were really guility of the hostilities that were happening down there, and that both sides had blood on their hands.  I find that it is better drama when both sides contribute to the start of a war.  Many people think Aztlan is the bad guy in this, where it should be understood that both contributed to the current climate, with Aztlan being a little bit more responsible for it by intentionally misleading Amazonia into attacking their lab and giving them a valid reason for a full-out war.  Strategically speaking, it is also in Aztlan's best interests to find a way of stopping this violence.  All this violence is costing them *A LOT* of nuyen.  And diplomacy wasn't working. And so, when the diplomats fail.... [/spoilers]

That is an excellent condensed bit of backstory.  Did it make it to a good sidebar somewhere in the book?  I'm waiting for the dead-trees version myself.

Semerkhet

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« Reply #44 on: (13:18:17/12-27-10) »
First you posted:
Why is it everywhere I go I see this franktrollman guy talkin trash about shadowrun? The dude writes reviews on amazon and all kinds of places. All taking major trash about various SR products. His reviews aren't objective in the slightest and tend to point out the most trivial of things.

What's his deal?
Then you posted:
My thoughts on War!

 This book, while good in general, leaves me with mixed feelings.

 While some of the fluff and crunch is great and the gear is awesome. (Write-ups of orbital weapons, holy shit!) It tends to lack a real focus. The book starts out describing Bogota without much warning. And to be honest the long write-up is rather boring and doesn't give too much deep information or secrets.

  After that it explains a little more about the various factions and throws out little plot hooks here and there. After reading the entire Bogota adventure section I'm disapointed not to find one map (not one?!) of the entire area. Also where's more info on the Azzies army, or the other forces? What kind of crazy paracritters and blood mages make up those platoons?

  Also the entire Bogota section really doesn't give much of a purpose to why they're even at war. Or why even wage war in that area of South America? It's nowhere near strategic for the Azzies to be overextending like that into hostile territory.

  The Bogota stuff aside (which makes up a good portion of the book), it's not all bad. I liked the write-ups on the other global hotpots. Though the way the adventure hooks are mixed in the with the fluff makes me cringe. And adding in some more actual heavy war zones would have been cool. (Albuquerque? Really?)

The leadership rules and large dice pool rules are pretty neat. And I love the composure tests for traumatic combat.

All in all it's a good book. It just lacks focus. It tends to be way too general while droning on with details, without actually giving enough meaningful information. And really misses at carving a deep meaningful story to tell within all of the mess.

(And where's the maps, man? The maps?!) [/rant]

So, do you realize that your review is basically a more succinct and less humorously written version of Frank Trollman's review but with a different conclusion?  I mean, you are covering pretty much the same points, both positive and negative, he brings up; though in your defense he does fixate on some art issues that seem kind of trivial.  It is evident that there are multiple biases at work here since you can find most of the same flaws as Mr. Trollman but conclude it is still a "good book" while Mr. Trollman concludes it is most definitely "not a good book."