[Fizzygoo]

Commlink Models are bought at base Response/Signal ratings and SR4A p 222 lists Hardware Upgrade Costs (with noted Availabilities).

For OS's (OSes, OSi, plural options heh), SR4A p 232, lists the costs of System and Firewall but it does not specifically say "Upgrades." However, I would assume that at CharGen a player could choose to purchase a Meta Link Model and a Vector Xirn OS (1/2/1/1) for 300¥, pay 5,000¥ to upgrade Response/Signal to 5 (this would be max as availability for both is 12), and then pay another 5,000¥ to purchase System/Firewalls at 5 (though theoretically the player could purchase them both at 6 for 6,000¥ total as there is no availability given for either System or Firewall). This would give the character a nice 5/5/5/5 commlink in a "low-end stock-box," for a total of 10,300¥, yes?

The short version of the above question is "can System and Firewall be upgraded from the stock OS's at CharGen."

[Chaemera]

I don't think so, for the following reasons:
* The prices listed on page 232 are for buying from scratch.
* Upgrades are limited to +2 for hardware (SR4A, pg. 222), you can't upgrade the Meta Link to 5/5.

Given the scaling of the prices, I'm willing to believe the upgrade prices listed on page 222 are total (ie, going from 3 -> 5 and 4 -> 5 costs the same)

Therefore, might I suggest this instead:
* Novatech Airwave (3/3) for 1250
* Response Upgrade (5) for 4000
* Signal Upgrade (5) for 1000
* "Generic" System rating 5 for 2500
* "Generic" Firewall rating 5 for 2500

Total cost: 11,250 ¥.

[Glyph]

No.  To upgrade System and Firewall, you either need to upgrade to a better stock OS, or buy them as software separately.  Note that if you do the latter, you don't have to buy a stock OS first.

One of the changes in SR4A (the Anniversary edition) is that you can only upgrade hardware up to 2 over the original rating, unless you spend 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification.  So the cheapest for a 5/5/5/5 commlink would be 100¥ for a Meta Link, 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification, 5,000¥ to upgrade the hardware, and 5,000¥ to buy the software, for a total of 11,100¥, which isn't bad.

Of course, if you buy Unwired, you will probably be adding a number of "must-have" upgrades to that commlink.

[Chaemera]

...unless you spend 1,000¥ for the modular electronics modification...

I don't doubt it's there (there are too many mods for me to keep track of them all), but where is this mod from? I checked SR4A, Arsenal, and Unwired, didn't see it in any of them.

[Ultra Violet]

Look here on page 3.
The RAW said, that it is for vehicle electronics and imply: not for commlinks. So the adaption to commlinks is a little bit difficult if you thing about the different Slots... a commlink slot point isn't the same as a vihicle slot point.
But as optional rule or houserule it's possible.

[Chaemera]

Look here on page 3.
But it RAW said, that it is for vehicle electronics and not for commlinks. So the adaption to commlinks is a little bit difficult if you thing about the different Slots... a commlink slot point isn't the same as a vihicle slot point.
But as optional rule or houserule it's possible.

No wonder I didn't find the dang thing, I like how they stipulate that it won't make it to print until a "future" Arsenal re-print / errata.

Thanks, UV.

[Fizzygoo]

Thanks ya'all. That's the only thing that has annoyed me with the layout of SR4 (old or A, so far) is that the hardware upgrades and OS program costs are not listed in the Equipment section next to the stock models and OS's. Thank you berry berry muches

[Casazil]

I'll add this post here too.....

Ahh but I walk into the store I say hey I need some things he says ok what ya need I give my list:

I buy the Response parts for 4k (rating 5)

the Signal parts for 1k (rating 5)

I buy the Firewall parts for 3k (rating 6)

and the system parts for 3k (rating 6).

He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.

I go home I make a commlink the has the stats of 5/5/6/6 for 11,100 nuyen SURE it runs at a level 5 system (untill I can go back an buy the rating 6 response and signal). BUT it is also upgradeable buy 2 levels from here. Which would allow me (once I buy the upgrades needed) to have a system of 8/8/8/8.

THERE is nothing that says I can't buy the parts and build a rating 6 commlink then upgrade it.

[Kot]

THERE is nothing that says I can't buy the parts and build a rating 6 commlink then upgrade it.

It will take time, effort, money, and at least a few issues to go over, possibly involving a run, or some freelancing with B&E, or paying the seller off with the Hacker's services, but it should work. I'd allow that in two-three game sessions. And i'd give that one a free* +1 bonus to Initiative, and one matrix action as with the personalizations from Unwired - it's your own baby, you know it better than anyone. But anyone else would suffer penalties.

[Ultra Violet]

A self-build commlink costs half the prize of the upgrade. And you could by a rating 6 Hardware, if you get the Restricted Gear Quality. But everything after 6 is only to get or build with GM approval!

[Bradd]

He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.

I don't think you can just throw hardware upgrade modules in a cheap "case" like that. You can normally only use them to upgrade stock hardware (within +2) or hook them up to a modular electronics unit (unlimited rating). So if you just use a cheap "case" for 100¥ (i.e., a Meta Link) then you can only crank it up to Response 3, Signal 4. However, if you use a basic modular platform for 1,100¥ then you can upgrade it as much as you like. You aren't limited to 2 more levels, so you can put in any hardware you can get your hands on.

[Casazil]

He says ok thats gonna be 11k. I say thinks now I got a commlink he says to me son you need a case to put all that in here I'll sell you one for 100 I say ok thanks and walk out.

I don't think you can just throw hardware upgrade modules in a cheap "case" like that. You can normally only use them to upgrade stock hardware (within +2) or hook them up to a modular electronics unit (unlimited rating). So if you just use a cheap "case" for 100¥ (i.e., a Meta Link) then you can only crank it up to Response 3, Signal 4. However, if you use a basic modular platform for 1,100¥ then you can upgrade it as much as you like. You aren't limited to 2 more levels, so you can put in any hardware you can get your hands on.

Ok I disagree with you (which Is allowed lol) As I have a computer case I've owned for 10+ years that cost me 50 bucks which I just buy new bigger better parts to put in it.

YES Shadowrun differs from our "real" world but something as basic as a commlink case even in Shadowrun should always be something of a cheap buy

[Bradd]

I've built computers from parts too. You won't get far with just a CPU, wireless card, and case. You need a motherboard too! The cheap mobo in a 100¥ MetaLink can only handle lightweight upgrades. For heavy-duty upgrades, you need a better stock unit, or a modular unit (1,000¥).

The RAW back this up too, as you can only use upgrade modules to upgrade existing hardware, as the name implies. They don't have stats for OEM components.

[Chaemera]

The prices listed in SR4A are specifically for upgrade modules. As Bradd points out, they (and the 100¥ cheap case) don't include:
The motherboard
The power supply
Any buswork which is not part of the buswork

And those three items are, practically speaking, what limits your ability to upgrade, as represented by the +2 cap on upgrading gear.

As a GM, I'm going to let you build your own comm-link, but it's not going to be as simple / cheap as buying an empty case and upgrade parts intended for hot-swapping into existing commlinks.

I might (it's counter productive to the megas to make building your own commlink cheap or easy) let you buy a "bare-bones" (That's case + MoBo + PS + Buswork) with a pre-defined upgrade limit. Otherwise, you'll either need to harvest parts from an existing commlink, build your barebones system from scratch, or lift a bare-bones system during a run against an electronics manufacturing plant.

All this puts us heavily in the "what your GM allows" territory.

If a GM wanted to be a jerk, he could point out that an empty case has a Device Rating of 0, and thus was limited in accepting upgrades to 2/2. Heck, I could see the AAA's even doing whatever it took to ensure that this was the limit of the private consumer's ability to make their own commlinks. Guarantees that the hobbyist electrician gets laughed at by their consumerist friends.

Maybe I'm missing something, but reading over "The Wireless World" in SR4A, particularly the sections on upgrading and using the hardware skill, "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" on page 138 of SR4A, and going through Unwired, I can't find any RAW that supports build-from-scratch commlinks except for the very GM Fiat heavy "Using Technical Skills to Build or Repair" rules.

[Nomad Zophiel]

I might (it's counter productive to the megas to make building your own commlink cheap or easy) let you buy a "bare-bones" (That's case + MoBo + PS + Buswork) with a pre-defined upgrade limit. Otherwise, you'll either need to harvest parts from an existing commlink, build your barebones system from scratch, or lift a bare-bones system during a run against an electronics manufacturing plant.

Yes and no. Its counterproductive to Corp A to make its system modular if they make the whole system. However, its VERY productive to corp B to make compatible knockoff hardware that works with corp A. This was IBM's thinking once upon a time when they figured they'd license their architecture rather than worry about building every last peripheral themselves. The model worked so well that Apple eventually broke down and switched to the same modular (sort of) setup. Most people still don't scratch build a system because its a bit intimidating until you do it once.

On the other hand, you have iPhone. Its a black box. You can't swap parts. You can't use it for anything Apple doesn't want you to unless you hack it. You can't even write your own programs for it without an Apple desktop and uploading it to Mama Apple for approval and inclusion in their store. Its wildly successful because the technology is a notch ahead of the competition and the marketing is great.

Which one will win out in the portable market in the long run? Hard to say. It really comes down to whether the Shadowrun public wants a communication/entertainment device or a full featured computer. So is each commlink an individual design incompatible with the others or are they all IBM compatibles with different motherboards, hard drives etc?