[Dead Monky]

In my group our rigger is a technomancer and while it doesn't cause any problems most of the time, we've been having an on again/off again debate for some time over how exactly ECCM, as complex form, would work when applied to multiple drones.  On one hand, there's the view that the techno would simply run multiple versions of the same complex form, one for each drone he has subscribed to his bionode.  Another view is that the techno could only maintain one ECCM complex form at a time and would have to rely on the sprites residing in the drones, or even ECCM programs, to protect the others.  Yet another view (actually a derivation of the second) is that the techno can only support ECCM in one drone per ECCM complex form purchased.  And then there's the view (a derivation of the first) that while the techno can only support ECCM in one drone, he can simply thread (I think that's what it's called) more ECCM complex forms and run those in the other drones, and deal with the fading.

What's everyone think?

[Dead Monky]

Oh, if anyone's wondering, I've been ruling things according to view number 4 (my view.)

[FastJack]

Hmm... from what I understand, 'mancers can have an unlimited number of Complex forms running at any given time without affecting their Response. Threading a form increases it's rating (like a mage overcasting a spell).

That being said, if he sends the complex forms out to run on the drones (without "jumping in"), then they're treated as normal programs that can affect the Response rating of the specific drone.

I'd probably say he could keep as many going as he wants, but if he Threads them, then he has to sustain them, so he'd take a -2 dice pool modifier for each one being sustained. But if they aren't Threaded, I see no reason to penalize him. In this case, 'mancers differ from magi; the Complex Forms can "live" on their own without direction from the 'mancer, while spells must always be tended to by magi.

[Dead Monky]

Hmm.  Sounds good.  I've heard the same arguments and was starting to lean in that direction.  I may have to change things up when he get back together again.  And I like the idea of it acting like a program and effecting Response if he isn't actively jumped in.  Makes sense to me.

Honestly, this has only come up once in actual play.  The techno usually just has sprites run his drones for him and just sort of jumps around monitoring them and reissuing orders as the need arises.

EDIT
Reworked my post a little after some thinking.

[Chaemera]

Since the ECCM has to run on the drone for the drone to benefit, not on the 'mancer (see quote at bottom).

Therefore, I would argue that he needs to install the ECCM program (not a complex form) on each drone and run it off the drone's system. Just like a rigger would have to. His ECCM Complex Form only runs on his bionode (you can't ask a computer to take over running a complex form, after all), providing the techno his own personal protection. Even if he were subscribed to the node, the ECCM is still running on the bionode, protecting said bionode, not the node to which he is currently subscribed.

Same goes for a rigger, running ECCM on your commlink, even if you're subscribed to a drone, doesn't offer any protection to that drone. The program has to be loaded and running on the device to be protected.

This is the most realistic interpretation of ECCM, ECCM is reactive, boosting the signal and filtering the noise as the jamming occurs. Therefore, the impacted node would lose signal and disconnect from the node on which the ECCM was actually running before a theoretical net-centric ECCM would compensate.

If you prefer a more mancer-friendly perspective, FastJack's method seems like a pretty reasonable solution.

Electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM) filter out jamming signals that attempt to disrupt a wireless connection, An ECCM program adds its rating to the Signal rating of the device on which it is running when defending against jamming (see p. 246)

[Dead Monky]

Hmm.  Now we're back to square one I guess.

And honestly, I'm looking for the solution that requires the least bookkeeping and creates the fewest headaches.

[Chaemera]

Then go with FastJack's, it's simple enough, it works well enough, and has the least book keeping.

Of course, the RAW I came out with is also pretty darned simple, it just means writing down an ECCM score for each of his drones, then when it's hit, he looks at Signal, adds ECCM, and has his answer. And buying an ECCM prog for each drone, but that's a few dice rolls (or, for simplicity, a hand-wave) and some nuyen out of his pocket.

Unless all his drones have the same Signal rating, he has to look it up and add his ECCM anyways, so it really isn't much more book keeping to go by the RAW. Either method, you still have to track it as a program running on the drone (at least, when the techno isn't there). By the method I laid out, it always counts, by FastJack's method, you have to add / subtract a program and redetermine response every time he jumps into a new drone.

Both have pros and cons from a minimal book-keeping standpoint, and I hope I laid them all out. I lean a little towards my interpretation of the RAW over FastJack's method, but then again, I'm me, of course I'm going to think my idea is better.

Also, I'm sure that this isn't an exhaustive list of pros and cons, so people, please, pile on the ideas and help out a poor Dead Monky speed up his game!

[Dead Monky]

Or just help me come to a decision that will keep me from getting bitched at.   

[FastJack]

Aw, Monky... No one's going to bitch at ya.

Replace the gunpowder in your grenades with baby powder, maybe...

[Ultra Violet]

IMO it's like Chaemera said, every single device has to run its own ECCM, except for the Jumped In Drone (in which the TM is jumped in), because it is one unit with the Bio Node.

[The Laughing One]

RAW, Complex forms cant run on anything but the TM persona. You need a separate program for each drone (including a jumped-in one, since your icon don't merge with the node of the drone or anything like that - its just a subscription).

[Ultra Violet]

@The Laughing One
Not at all.

A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative — the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit.

Without this I would agree with you.

[Ultra Violet]

But since the monkey is out of the box... a little OTQ:
Can a technomancers bio-node be a central part in a cluster node?
If yes (Can a TM build a cluster with another Resonance Being?), and if not, why exactly not (please with Source Quote)?

[Dead Monky]

The logic I was using in the way I was handling it was that since the subscribed drones were linked to the techno's bionode he could maintain a complex form on the drone through the signal linking them together.  I don't remember reading anything about technos only being able to support them on their own bionode.

Aw, Monky... No one's going to bitch at ya.

Not here maybe.

Replace the gunpowder in your grenades with baby powder, maybe...

Now what would be the fun in that?

[Chaemera]

@The Laughing One
Not at all.

A drone controlled in this manner acts on the rigger’s Initiative — the rigger and the drone are treated as a single unit.

Without this I would agree with you.

If you assume that "treated as a single unit" means that they are suddenly a single node (not that there's anything in the rules to suggest this, but it's the assumption behind the idea that a complex form running on a bionode suddenly is running on a drone just cause the 'mancer is jumped in), then would programs running on the rigger's node be limited by the system (pilot) rating of the drone? And if so, how many programs are running on the "combined" rigger/drone node?

If you cannot answer all of these questions (and more) using RAW, then no, you shouldn't read the sentence that explains how initiative of a jumped-in drone works to infer how EVERYTHING about a jumped-in drone works.

Read that sentence again, it translates to "For initiative, the rigger and drone are treated as one unit". They don't suddenly share a single damage track. Programs running on the rigger's node are still running on the rigger's node (nothing says they move). You are hanging your hat on a single sentence that says nothing about anything... except initiative.