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Shadowrun Crossfire: Rules Clarification

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tasti man LH

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« on: (20:04:49/07-22-14) »
Well the Quick Start is out and about, so might as well get started on vetting through the ruleset and cards:

-Does the game have any kind of Damage Overflow? In other words, if you deal more Damage then you need to to a track, could you transfer the excess Damage to the next Track if applicable? For example: if I have a Track that calls for 4 colorless Damage, but I end up dealing 5 Damage to it. The next track calls for 1 Green Damage, and out of the 5 Damage I just dealt, I had 1 Green Damage among them. Could you do that?

-So you can play as many cards as you want during your turn? That theoretically, if you wanted to, you could empty your whole hand in one turn?

-Some of the Obstacle cards, when it comes to their effects, describe their topic as "You". For instance, the "Ork Fixer" card's effect is: "You can't buy cards". By "you" do they mean the player that the Obstacle is facing, or does the effect apply to all of the players?

-The print out cards don't have their backs on them, naturally. Because of that it is a little bit more difficult to identify what type of cards these are. Specifically, the Obstacle Cards: which ones are Normal Obstacles and which ones Hard Obstacles? Is it that Normal are the ones that deal 1 Damage and the Hard deal 2 Damage? Or something else?

Any other rules questions (for the Quick Start or the soon-to-be-released core set), stick 'em here
« Last Edit: (23:07:41/07-23-14) by tasti man LH »
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The Tekwych

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« Reply #1 on: (00:23:53/07-23-14) »
-Does the game have any kind of Damage Overflow? In other words, if you deal more Damage then you need to to a track, could you transfer the excess Damage to the next Track if applicable? For example: if I have a Track that calls for 4 colorless Damage, but I end up dealing 5 Damage to it. The next track calls for 1 Green Damage, and out of the 5 Damage I just dealt, I had 1 Green Damage among them. Could you do that?
My thoughts are No, no Overflow. Just as you canít deal partial damage to a level and pass the remainder to the next player you canít pass additional damage to the next level. In your example you would be able to play cards equal to 4 damage and clear the first level then play 1 green damage and clear the second in the same turn but the second level must be its own card.

-So you can play as many cards as you want during your turn? That theoretically, if you wanted to, you could empty your whole hand in one turn?
Yes, Yes you can. In step 4 of each turn you draw 2 additional cards if you 3 or less cards. 0 is less than 3

-Some of the Obstacle cards, when it comes to their effects, describe their topic as "You". For instance, the "Ork Fixer" card's effect is: "You can't buy cards". By "you" do they mean the player that the Obstacle is facing, or does the effect apply to all of the players?
I take you to be the player (runner) that the obstacle is facing. In the rules they speak of Out Of Ammo holding back the player it is facing, not the player that is applying damage to it.

-The print out cards don't have their backs on them, naturally. Because of that it is a little bit more difficult to identify what type of cards these are. Specifically, the Obstacle Cards: which ones are Normal Obstacles and which ones Hard Obstacles? Is it that Normal are the ones that deal 1 Damage and the Hard deal 2 Damage? Or something else?
Hard Obstacles For Demo Deck:

Chromed Samurai
Armored Troopers
Knight Errant Field Agent
Drone Rigger
Spirit of Fire
Lightning Mage
Warded Decker
Security Chief

Randall

graven2002

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« Reply #2 on: (22:36:41/07-23-14) »
-Does the game have any kind of Damage Overflow? In other words, if you deal more Damage then you need to to a track, could you transfer the excess Damage to the next Track if applicable? For example: if I have a Track that calls for 4 colorless Damage, but I end up dealing 5 Damage to it. The next track calls for 1 Green Damage, and out of the 5 Damage I just dealt, I had 1 Green Damage among them. Could you do that?
My thoughts are No, no Overflow. Just as you canít deal partial damage to a level and pass the remainder to the next player you canít pass additional damage to the next level. In your example you would be able to play cards equal to 4 damage and clear the first level then play 1 green damage and clear the second in the same turn but the second level must be its own card.

Normally I might agree, but because they have us play cards first and then apply damage all at once, it leaves room for interpretation.  Your reading would extremely weaken cards like DeathTouch that would only clear a single Mana damage track if played by itself, the same as a basic Mana spell card, even if you revealed 3 spell cards.

I could see either system (Overflow or No Overflow) being viable, but which one the game was designed around is the big question.  If obstacles were made with Overflow in mind they would be difficult to beat without it.  Or, conversely, very easy to defeat with Overflow if designed for No Overflow.  I'm eager to discover which system the team chose.

Mendrian

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« Reply #3 on: (21:59:00/07-27-14) »
I had a question about Lightning Bolt.

It isn't at all clear what "2 consecutive damage" actually means. It could mean 2 of any given type of damage, but "consecutive" implies sequence or order. If it had said, "Deal M M, OR H H OR, ect" that would have been a lot more clear.

graven2002

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« Reply #4 on: (00:08:16/07-28-14) »
I had a question about Lightning Bolt.

It isn't at all clear what "2 consecutive damage" actually means. It could mean 2 of any given type of damage, but "consecutive" implies sequence or order. If it had said, "Deal M M, OR H H OR, ect" that would have been a lot more clear.

It says "Deal 2 consecutive levels of damage to an obstacle", I understood this to mean two sections of the damage track on a single obstacle.
For example, if you played it on a fresh 'Customs Officer' obstacle with the damage track  |3 Gray|> |Red|> |2 Gray|, when applied it would damage it to |3 Gray|> |Red|> |2 Gray|.
Very powerful, but expensive card.


tasti man LH

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« Reply #5 on: (05:13:50/07-30-14) »
First off, thank you to The Tekwych and graven2002 for clarifying my questions.

Second, actually looking at the Obstacle Cards, I think we may already have a slight error, in that it makes no sense for the Lightning Mage to be labeled as a Hard Obstacle. It's only got 4 levels of damage, and only deals 1 point of damage to runners.

Conversely, the Aerial Combat Drone obstacle for all intents and purposes SHOULD be a Hard Obstacle. It's got the full 8 damage tracks, and deals 2 points of damage to a runner, and is not in the list you posted.

Either a slight error on your part...or some mislabeling.
"I prefer the Turnabout discussions more then the Roundabout variety"

graven2002

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« Reply #6 on: (12:14:22/07-30-14) »
...it makes no sense for the Lightning Mage to be labeled as a Hard Obstacle. It's only got 4 levels of damage, and only deals 1 point of damage to runners.

Conversely, the Aerial Combat Drone obstacle for all intents and purposes SHOULD be a Hard Obstacle. It's got the full 8 damage tracks, and deals 2 points of damage to a runner...

Thank you for asking questions!  It's fun to analyze this game even before it's out.

On to your current question: there are a multiple factors that determine an obstacle's difficulty, including health track length, damage dealt, damage difficulty, payout, and bonus ability.

While the Aerial Combat Drone has a long Health Track, and some Damage Difficulty due to a variety of damage types (green, black, and red), it doesn't have large generic damage pools slowing it's defeat (4 or 5 gray for example).  You can slowly but surely defeat it as a group.  It also has a large (8!) Nuyen Payout and a positive Bonus Ability when defeated (draw and discard).

In contrast, the Lightning Mage may have a shorter and easier Health Track (only gray and blue), but has a much smaller (only 3) Nuyen Payout to compensate.  Most importantly, don't discount it's powerful negative Bonus Ability that prevents ALL runners from being healed.  The old shadow saying still applies,  "Geek the Mage First!"

These factors can combine to create a nearly infinite variety of obstacles, each with a different feel, and can lead to interesting gameplay decisions for the players.  The Aerial Combat Drone feels like an agile target, one you have to pepper with shots to eventually bring down.  The Lightning Mage feels like a lurking nemesis; hounding you unless dealt with quickly, but giving little reward for your victory.  Choosing which to go after first would depend on your current situation, do you need Nuyen from destroying the Drone, or are you on your last legs and need to target the Lightning Mage so you can finally heal.  Exciting stuff!


JustLogan

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« Reply #7 on: (02:44:58/08-17-14) »
Only question that came up in our game was for, I want to say the room sweeper, the * text implies that it's damage could be applied anywhere. Was the term a runner there for good measure (in case another card
Let it work on obstacles on another runner) or there  to imply that this card was allowed to damage anyone?  On the idea over overflow with the full rules it's pretty clear; you play all of your cards and clear as many levels as possible with the icons you have. Damage is one step after playing cards and there's no way to read the intention that you could only clear one level per turn, that would be extra suicide.

graven2002

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« Reply #8 on: (15:13:19/08-17-14) »
Only question that came up in our game was for, I want to say the room sweeper, the * text implies that it's damage could be applied anywhere. Was the term a runner there for good measure (in case another card
Let it work on obstacles on another runner) or there  to imply that this card was allowed to damage anyone?  On the idea over overflow with the full rules it's pretty clear; you play all of your cards and clear as many levels as possible with the icons you have. Damage is one step after playing cards and there's no way to read the intention that you could only clear one level per turn, that would be extra suicide.

Any card can be played on any obstacle(s) facing any runner during your turn.  (Unless explicitly denied by individual card text such as obstacle abilities, crossfire effects, or weapon limitations.)
So, if you friend has 3 obstacles facing him and you have one facing you, you could attack your one with the Room Sweeper or attack his obstacles and hit all 3.
Interesting combos mentioned in this blog post: 
http://www.shadowruntabletop.com/2013/07/crossfire-why-i-like-to-play-the-street-samurai-simplicity-with-versatility/

Yes, overflow is definitely allowed in the full rules, but the discussion before was more about one damage level per card, not one level per turn (which would be total suicide).

JustLogan

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« Reply #9 on: (17:26:23/08-17-14) »
Yeah we found that. No wonder we were doing so poorly. Still seems like the game will have plenty of challenge

JustLogan

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« Reply #10 on: (17:58:32/08-18-14) »
"The  total value of upgrades a runner can have is limited by the amount of Karma they have earned. Each upgrade has a value that is shown on the Upgrade sticker. In addition, each upgrade that is placed in any slot on a Runner card other than the first slot has its value increased by 10. When you acquire an up- grade, remove the sticker and place it on your Runner card in one of the upgrade slots. You can only do so if this doesnít raise the total value of all your upgrades above the Karma you have earned (and remember that upgrades in slots other than the first slot cost 10 more than normal against your total).
If you decide you donít like one of your upgrades, or want to use that slot for a more powerful upgrade, you can cover an existing Upgrade sticker with a new one. When you cover an upgrade, only the Upgrade sticker on top counts."
So if I read that correctly it's better to continue to upgrade the first slot to max (50) before moving down the track is that correct?

tasti man LH

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« Reply #11 on: (03:31:47/09-05-14) »
You can play a card from your hand and still receive the benefits of the effects, even though the damage dealt wasn't enough to clear a level, yes?

Say I wanted to play Clairvoyance to get the "Draw 1 card, then discard 1 card" effect, even though I'm playing it on an obstacle that needed Red damage on the next Damage Level?
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Timothy M. Patrick

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« Reply #12 on: (09:15:37/09-05-14) »
During the by phase between scenes, when the last obstacle is defeated and every one has a chance to buy 1 card from the black market.  Some cards have purchase requirements such as only being able to purchase if you played a spell this turn. Can those type of cards be purchase din this phase or is it something you would need to wait until the next scene.
Co-Host of CriticalGlitch a Shadowrun podcast Criticalglitch.com

Bull

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« Reply #13 on: (12:29:12/09-05-14) »
Not an official source, so take with a grain of salt my answers:

Quote
During the by phase between scenes, when the last obstacle is defeated and every one has a chance to buy 1 card from the black market.  Some cards have purchase requirements such as only being able to purchase if you played a spell this turn. Can those type of cards be purchase din this phase or is it something you would need to wait until the next scene.

This came up in our games, and our ruling was that you needed to have played a Spell Card on your last active turn before the  "Catch Your Breath" between phase.

Quote
You can play a card from your hand and still receive the benefits of the effects, even though the damage dealt wasn't enough to clear a level, yes?

Say I wanted to play Clairvoyance to get the "Draw 1 card, then discard 1 card" effect, even though I'm playing it on an obstacle that needed Red damage on the next Damage Level?

Yes, because you play all the cards you wish to play first, resolve their special abilities, then in the next step you assign damage.  Any damage you cannot properly assign at this point is wasted.

Quote
"The  total value of upgrades a runner can have is limited by the amount of Karma they have earned. Each upgrade has a value that is shown on the Upgrade sticker. In addition, each upgrade that is placed in any slot on a Runner card other than the first slot has its value increased by 10. When you acquire an up- grade, remove the sticker and place it on your Runner card in one of the upgrade slots. You can only do so if this doesnít raise the total value of all your upgrades above the Karma you have earned (and remember that upgrades in slots other than the first slot cost 10 more than normal against your total).

If you decide you donít like one of your upgrades, or want to use that slot for a more powerful upgrade, you can cover an existing Upgrade sticker with a new one. When you cover an upgrade, only the Upgrade sticker on top counts."

So if I read that correctly it's better to continue to upgrade the first slot to max (50) before moving down the track is that correct?

It all depends on what you want to do, IMO.  If you focus on a single slot, you'll be able to get a powerful ability more quickly, sure, but at the cost of versatility. It might be better sometimes to spread out those 50 karma points to have 3 lower level different abilities (You could have 2 5-pointers and a 10-point ability) to give yourself more options.  Or, just buy one of the big guns at the outset.  This is all player preference, I think.

SevenSpirits

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« Reply #14 on: (17:49:30/09-05-14) »
During the by phase between scenes, when the last obstacle is defeated and every one has a chance to buy 1 card from the black market.  Some cards have purchase requirements such as only being able to purchase if you played a spell this turn. Can those type of cards be purchase din this phase or is it something you would need to wait until the next scene.

You can't buy them at that time because it's not anyone's turn, so no one played a spell that turn.