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ares monosword?

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JimmyCrisis

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« Reply #30 on: (02:35:38/07-18-14) »
There are far too many weapons that are functionally useless due to certain other weapons being way too good. Like the katana, for the most obvious example. But it's not just blades.
You say the Katana is too good? A twohanded weapon for that you need a Troll to even reach the Monowhip? And don't forget, that the Monowhip can be used in conjunction with a shield or a one-handed firearm for more flexibility.
A STR9 combatant had 8P AP-1 with a Katana in SR4, the Monowhip had +1 Reach and -3AP in comparison.
Now that STR9 guy does 12P AP-3 versus 12P AP-8 with the same base accuracy (due to the weird idea of using smartlink). Granted, now you can get higher dmg, but the needed investment is also growing. And this severe AP of the monowhip is golden against Hardened Armor.
With Fingertip compartment you don't even have concealability issues ... no, the Katana is not obviously too strong.

You are going the wrong way with the idea.  The katana is strong enough but nothing else is on par with it.  I'm all for Japanese samurai action but I also know that a katana bounces off chainmail and steel armors.  It's a 3 foot razor blade, not a lightsaber.  And what's up with the accuracy?  There's nothing inherently quicker or more balanced about a katana than anything else.  I've got a fantastic Irish longsword that's wonderfully balanced and slices quite nicely.  It's got a good point too, it would work well with the "half-sword" technique.  Arguably, it should have better penetration and just as much accuracy.  I'm all for katanas doing more base damage, though.  Like I said, 3 foot razor blades.

So:  Don't nerf the katana.  Make other weapons on par with it.  That is all.

Leevizer

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« Reply #31 on: (03:18:52/07-18-14) »
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 Shadowrun system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 Shadowrun system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Blade Weapon)
STR+5P Damage
-8 AP
8 Accuracy
+2 to Blades skill when using
20,000 Nuyen

(Two-Handed Blade Weapon)
STR+8P Damage
-12 AP
Accuracy 10
+5 to Blades skill when using
30,000 Nuyen

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in d20 Shadowrun, see my new stat block.

firebug

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« Reply #32 on: (03:39:22/07-18-14) »
I think you need to chill a bit and watch some episodes of Deadliest Warrior.  XD
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Medicineman

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« Reply #33 on: (03:50:56/07-18-14) »
Quote
Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

Way to Cheap.
And what about WiFI Bonus ?
I'd suggest that Drawing it is a free Action and If You have/know the MA Maneuver Iajido Attacking is a Free Action instead of a simple one
So you can Attack twice  ( but only with WiFi on )
You can see that so many times in the Movies that the goons get sliced 3 or more times before they can even draw their guns.
And I've also seen a Guy that sliced a Bullet in Midair.
With A WiFi On I'd suggest a ....+6 Bonus to parry a single Bullet  , only +3 if its a small Burst and +0 if its a Long Burst

with a WiFi Dance
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Lucean

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« Reply #34 on: (03:51:27/07-18-14) »
And because you wasted spent so much money we should believe you?
The celts used a similar way of forging weapons about 1,000 years before the Japanese used smelting techniques. Romans and Germans also used similarly complex smithing techniques before the Japanese.
The Katana originates in the 15th century. In India and Persia crucible steel production reached their peak during Antique.

Just because modern media flavored romantically idealized images of japanese culture doesn't make the Katana any better. There are no scientological or historical facts about the Katana being better than other swords with similar craftmanship. Maybe you had a good smith, but don't make the price tag on your personal Katana the basis of a discussion, please.

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I think the Combat Knife was too close to the Katana in stats, a legal weapon with only -1 accuracy, -1DV and -1 reach. That gives almost no room to vary from.
The Claymore from R&G is actually better than the Katana in the right situation, because of the additional -2 AP and -1 defense die.
Swords are better when combined with Two-Weapon-Style Attack, giving them the same Accuracy and trading +1AP for +1DV.

Ryo

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« Reply #35 on: (04:00:58/07-18-14) »
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 Shadowrun system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected..

Hahahahaha, oh god.

I don't know if you're a troll or if you actually think any of that is true, but I got a good laugh anyway, thanks.

The actual best sword design in human history was Damascus steel blades. The way to forge them was actually lost to history, so we don't actually know how they made them back then, but looking at them under a microscope shows an edge that actually has constructs on the nano scale, like carbon nanotubes and such. They were stupidly sharp, kept their edge like nothing else and had all kinds of crazy legends about them. And I can't stress this enough, we have no idea how they made them, and can't really replicate it with modern technology either.
« Last Edit: (04:05:33/07-18-14) by Ryo »

Leevizer

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« Reply #36 on: (04:07:48/07-18-14) »

Sendaz

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« Reply #37 on: (04:08:54/07-18-14) »
And because you wasted spent so much money we should believe you?
The celts used a similar way of forging weapons about 1,000 years before the Japanese used smelting techniques. Romans and Germans also used similarly complex smithing techniques before the Japanese.
The Katana originates in the 15th century. In India and Persia crucible steel production reached their peak during Antique.

Just because modern media flavored romantically idealized images of japanese culture doesn't make the Katana any better. There are no scientological or historical facts about the Katana being better than other swords with similar craftmanship. Maybe you had a good smith, but don't make the price tag on your personal Katana the basis of a discussion, please.

---------------------

I think the Combat Knife was too close to the Katana in stats, a legal weapon with only -1 accuracy, -1DV and -1 reach. That gives almost no room to vary from.
The Claymore from R&G is actually better than the Katana in the right situation, because of the additional -2 AP and -1 defense die.
Swords are better when combined with Two-Weapon-Style Attack, giving them the same Accuracy and trading +1AP for +1DV.
I think he may just be trying to yank your chain because his Argument for Katana was just lifted from here, it's been circulating for a while and still funny.

edit: bah.. slipped by Leeviser :P
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decPL

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« Reply #38 on: (04:28:48/07-18-14) »
To the best of my knowledge katanas are quite far from the uber-swords that the modern western culture makes them. Some various points (not an expert myself, but most of those can be easily verified by the arcane power of browsing the Matrix Internet):

- Katanas were the symbol of samurai status, but for actual combat their preferred weapons of choice were either a longbow or a yari/naginata (and no, I've never seen any mention of the katana being to good to be used in mundane stuff like actually trying to kill your opponent before he kills you).
- The much praised method of folding steel used to produce them wasn't a unique feature of the katana, the same technique was used to create various European swords. In fact it was in used by Vikings 2000+ years before katana was introduced.
- This technique in fact was the only option to get a decent sword in medieval Japan; the country didn't have access to a decent source of iron and what could be smelted was usually quite brittle and made poor swords. Most 'katanas are awesome' vids/posts around the internet are based on katanas which, even if made using medieval techniques, are made from modern quality steel, which is not necessarily comparable to the average original.
- Katanas never evolved, the basic design remained the same for around 7 centuries, despite the advances in metallurgy and the general understanding of the art of killing the other guy. Compare with European swords which constantly evolved, ending up with stuff like the Polish cavalry sabre (I really don't want to get into a discussion on the lines of 'what was the best euro/worldwide sword ever'; the sabre seems to be generally considered a really solid sword, so I went with that).

---

Edit: ninja'd (or samurai'd? :P)
« Last Edit: (04:36:15/07-18-14) by decPL »

firebug

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« Reply #39 on: (04:38:32/07-18-14) »
None of you happen to go to /tg/, huh?

I figured it was a joke 'cause I know the general meme but I didn't know it was so specific.  XD
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Medicineman

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« Reply #40 on: (04:55:06/07-18-14) »
and I knew that Leevizer's post was ....Tongue-in-Cheek because I rememberd that Meme from Dumpschock

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FastJack

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« Reply #41 on: (07:58:11/07-18-14) »
Question asked, question answered, thread locked.