[Adeptus Technicanus]

Do these "quick clones" have fully developed brains, but just no memories?(tabula rasa?) If they do, they could be an almost ethical option for CFD inhabitation.

That is basically what everybody is arguing over. Has anyone checked the errata for the Runner's Companion?

[Novocrane]

Under enforced growth conditions (basically a combination of hormone cocktails and genetic therapy to speed through growth cycles), the brain is not able to keep up with the rest of the body, yielding an underdeveloped brain that cannot keep the body alive on its own.

[Mirikon]

Exactly. In other words, quick-grown clones are only good for replacing parts. ANYONE who is an 'Escaped Clone' is slow-grown.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Remember that clones have been around since first edition / game start - 2050 - as part of high-end replacement parts.  With Gold+ DocWagon, you have a fast-grown clone after 3 months, ready to replace any of your limbs or organs that fail, no matter the cause.  So this ain't a new thing.  Part of the issue, though, is that it isn't the 'sentient' portions that are at fault; it's the 'stay alive' sections that have to have wires run into them; think of the clones as requiring a pacemaker, and not because the heart is glitchy ...

Since the corporations are trying to figure out how to fast-grow sentient clones (no law against it, after all), though the de facto canonical answer to 'Escaped Clone' is a slow-growth one, I would table rule that anyone with the Quality was a one-in-a-thousand long-shot successfully-fast-grown sentient.  The corporation will always be after the character - you'd have to take Hunted at max (or even max-plus-one), because whenever you get genescanned, agents are on their way.  I might lump two or three top-level Hunteds on you, in fact, because not only ParentCo. would be after you - other ones would be too, because if they can figure that one out ... whoo, boy.  That's one of the golden geese, man, especially if they can guide the development of the sentience, between psychotropic programming and the rest ...

[Walks Through Walls]

The reason I'm asking is for NPC and plot not a character to play in game. I have a group who has all the items needed for cloning and trying to figure out what options there are for plot and making the lives of the characters more interesting.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

*blinks*  How in hell did they get that???  And why the hell haven't they sold it already???

'All the items needed for cloning' includes quite a bit - and all of it is going to be Pretty Damn Expensive.  Gene sequencers are going to be needed to check to make sure the sample is pure; the balanced acid bath to turn the cells' active sequences off and revert the cell to essentially 'stem cell' (STAP cell) status will probably be tough to find.  The initial matrix required to give the growing embryo nutrition; the nutrition fluid that feeds it and takes away the wastes.  The waste filters; the growth accelerators; etc. etc.

Growing a clone is expensive, probaly 10-30% of that initial DocWagon Gold outlay.  Keeping it alive, not so much.  The really expensive parts are the growth tank(s), the proprietary software to run them, and everything else.  Me, I'd put the street value of this stuff at a cool million, which means at least 3 million to purchase.  DocWagon etc. get to reuse all the gear dozens and hundreds of times, of course ...

How the hell did they GET it?  And why the hell did you let them keep it?

Let's presume they have all the right stuff.  The 'interesting' part is really going to be how they choose to try to induce sentience during the forced growth.  What do they do?  What stage do they do it at?  If they do manage to create a sentient fast-grown clone ... just that fact alone is going to make them, the clone, their records and their gear Worldwide Extraction Target #1.

[Mirikon]

Yeah, Wyrm is right. BARE MINIMUM, you'd need a Facility, maybe two, just to HOLD all the gear that you would need for cloning. Add to that the value of all the chemicals and machines? And the scientific know-how to actually use them (these aren't 'push and play', you know!)? I'd say a million is lowballing it. You're talking about setting up an entire corporate lab here.

[Solarious]

I was actually just wondering something similar recently

Is it possible to use some sort of simsense/PAB based technology to transplant someone's full memories (up to the point of the copy) into a cloned "shell"?

This would allow for a strange immortality as the person wanting to live longer actually isn't at all- but their mind is
I wonder if anybody would actually do this given the fact that they arnt actually the ones living their extended life
It's more like giving your life experiences to someone else to live

And what would happen if you implanted the memories and experiences of a 90 year old into a 10 year old?

[Mirikon]

Obviously, this would require 'slow-grown' clones. The tech already exists to 'condition' someone with false memories and adjusting personality traits. It basically does this via a form of post-hypnotic suggestion, though it does it directly in your brain with simsense conditioning. And there's the bit where you can use a Personafix chip. But the problem with all these methods is that you don't get the mental attributes of the individual you copied from, you use the victim's mental stats. And a mindless 'blank slate' is, not surprisingly, a mindless blank slate. And the problems start from there.

[RulezLawyerZ]

The reason I'm asking is for NPC and plot not a character to play in game. I have a group who has all the items needed for cloning and trying to figure out what options there are for plot and making the lives of the characters more interesting.

So let them Frankenstein up a monster. If your characters are basic, run of the mill shadowrunners, they probably haven't thought to isolate the clone from the astral; they've just knocked together the perfect little home for some denizen of astral space to inhabit and go walkabout. The shedim may or may not be a threat in your game, but there have been dire warnings about that sort of thing since day one.

On the other hand, maybe they've hit that gazillion to one chance and somehow managed to make a perfect clone of the tissue donor, complete with sentience, sapience, and memories. Now they're the bad guys in a pod person scenario; how do they work it out? Assuming (again) that your players are run of the mill shadowrunners, odds are they don't have the same obsessive record keeping as actual lab rats, and will likely never be able to find the proper combination of luck and sloppiness to do it again.

[Walks Through Walls]

OK I didn't state what I meant well.

NPCs not associated with the characters have the equipment and are doing cloning. They have managed to get DNA of at least one of the PCs and others not necessarily associated directly with the group. I want to make it interesting, but still pretty much along with cannon about clones which is why I asked what I did.

The characters briefly had a vat, but not knowing exactly what they had they completed the job and gave it to Mr. Johnson.
The group that does have it is a powerful group that is being built up to one of the evil powers pulling strings in the game, but they are well aware  how big of a target this could make them even if just making clones like others.
thanks for all of the input it has been helpful so far.

[Walks Through Walls]

OK I'm evil and just had another thought about this.

If you fast grow a clone its brain wouldn't be developed. If you wanted to fake a death and used the clone would it be obvious that the brain wasn't functioning after death? Would a typical autopsy reveal the deception or would the examiner need to be looking for something in order to find it?

Thanks

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

... what, you're only now thinking about that?  We were doing that back in the 2050's.  And you would need to be looking for it; the tissue is developed, but the network is not.  It's like the computers are in place (cellular scan) but the network cables (synapses) are not.  And if you're going to fake your own death that way, use a method that leaves the face intact but destroys much of the brain matter - a hollowpoint to the forehead, for example.

[Walks Through Walls]

I was more thinking of to keep the original corporation from looking for an extracted person. Cover the trail with a dead body. Hmmm. This has options.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Same thing.  Faking a death with a clone is faking a death with a clone, whether that's you or someone else.  Remember, though, that it isn't instantaneous.  Getting the plan in place would take a minimum of 3 months, and if the person has any other distinguishing marks - moles, tattoos, scars, etc. - you're going to have to add them - and their fading.