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Spirits and Skill caps

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Shadowwalker

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« on: <09-07-10/1415:24> »
Greetings all
just tossing a thought out. do Spirits have skill caps like mortal beings do i.e. do all spirit skills stop at 6(7)
example Joe shaman knowing the drek is getting hot risk calling up a force 10 spirit of beasts as support (and survives the drain) does this mean that the spirit has all of its skills at 10 or 6 per the skill cap?

The book SR4A does state on p303 that skill are = to spirit's force
if so this makes high force free spirits fraking hoss

FastJack

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« Reply #1 on: <09-07-10/1451:52> »
Unless Jason or someone contradicts it, I'd say sure.

Sure, Joe shaman could. Let's look at the numbers:

Let's say Joe's maxed out his magic and Summoning skill, including the quality to boost Summoning to a 7. So he's got 13 dice in his pool to summon the spirit. Wanting to call on a Force 10 spirit, he now has his 13 dice against the spirit's 10 dice to determine his success. He only needs one net success to get it to help him, so it's possible. Law of averages, says he'll probably get 4 success and the spirit will get 3.

Now, Joe's got to deal with the drain. The drain value for the spirit is 6P (2×spirit's total hits; Physical for summoning a spirit higher than his mana). But Joe's a charismatic guy and has terrific willpower, let's say 5/5. So he has 10 dice for resisting the drain. Averages again give him three hits; reducing the drain to 3P damage. Now, Joe's a drek-hot shaman, but at the cost that his body's not that high, maybe a 3. That means he's got 10 boxes that he can take, but he's down to 7 now, putting him at -1 wound modifier, making it a bit more difficult to escape.

Possible? Yes. But I'd probably only do it as a character if I had no other way of getting out of there. Remember, This is assuming he's successful on everything and doesn't glitch.

Casazil

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« Reply #2 on: <09-07-10/1828:19> »
The big thing for Shadowrun 4 is everything has skill caps.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: <09-07-10/1828:55> »
The big thing for Shadowrun 4 is everything has skill caps.
Everything but Immortal Elves, Dragons, Damien Knight...

Shadowwalker

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« Reply #4 on: <09-07-10/2112:36> »
so a Spirits known Skills Stop at 6 is hat what I am understanding or at it's Force which ever is lower?

Casazil

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« Reply #5 on: <09-07-10/2115:12> »
I would think force but the force is of course limited by the summoners abilities which over time can go up unlimited amounts but thats years and years of play
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
Catalyst Demo Team Shadowrun Special Agent #251
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

FastJack

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« Reply #6 on: <09-07-10/2130:26> »
Until there's an official ruling, I'd house-rule that Spirits' skills cap at six or their Force, whichever is lower.

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #7 on: <09-07-10/2204:29> »
Even if the skill is capped at 6 when the skill is used it is matched with an attribute which IMHO wouldn't be capped so a force 8-10 spirit could have a dice pool of 14-16 which is dangerous, and frightening but not impossible.

Not that I would want to go against anyone who had several skills in this dice pool range.

If used right the spirits powers are what makes it really dangerous however. Especially when they are an opposed test of spirit force vs character attribute.

 
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Darkeus

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« Reply #8 on: <09-07-10/2222:15> »
When it comes to the supernatural, anything can happen in my book.  :)

I thought what I'd do is; I would pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

FastJack

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« Reply #9 on: <09-07-10/2251:49> »
Too true... I doubt Ghostwalker or Damien Knight have to worry about skill caps. ;)

Turtletron

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« Reply #10 on: <09-07-10/2302:39> »
When it comes to the supernatural, anything can happen in my book.  :)


Too true... I doubt Ghostwalker or Damien Knight have to worry about skill caps. ;)


Agree with both, if those guys had to worry about skill or attribute caps, they would already be dead by now
(>) ...and I would have made it too, except for those nosey kids & their stupid dog...
(>) excerpt of The Smiling Bandit's taped deposition, Knight Errant casefile #E385h-0516

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #11 on: <09-08-10/0627:44> »
I noticed this as well, in my games.  One of the players is a dedicated summoner.  Whistling up a force 9 or 10 produces zero drain for him most of the time.  His critters are, of course, quite butch.  I think that I might put in a skill cap of 6 for regular spirits and remove it for great forms.
There is no overkill.

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Jonny Reload

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« Reply #12 on: <09-08-10/0633:41> »
Personally I think you should keep the skill cap to whatever the Spirits Force is... Be creative him and punish him with plot (ex. the more powerful the spirit, the more your summoning something that will own you once your favors run out.) I mean a level 10 Spirit isn't gonna be stupid with a Logic and Willpower of 10! I know if I was a big bad Spirit of 6+ Force and you woke me out of bed being some piddly little Summoner who was asking me for favors while the Cosmos enforces them, you'd better be damn well sure as soon as the laws of the Astral Plane aren't looking, the beat down you will receive will be felt by generations of your off spring to come!  :D
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix

Turtletron

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« Reply #13 on: <09-08-10/1739:17> »
Personally I think you should keep the skill cap to whatever the Spirits Force is... Be creative him and punish him with plot (ex. the more powerful the spirit, the more your summoning something that will own you once your favors run out.) I mean a level 10 Spirit isn't gonna be stupid with a Logic and Willpower of 10! I know if I was a big bad Spirit of 6+ Force and you woke me out of bed being some piddly little Summoner who was asking me for favors while the Cosmos enforces them, you'd better be damn well sure as soon as the laws of the Astral Plane aren't looking, the beat down you will receive will be felt by generations of your off spring to come!  :D

Never thought it was such a good idea to punish your player for having a successful character. I also think that if you are able to summon a force 10 spirit without any drain damage, you are worthy of praise, not of being squashed by your own summon. But that's only my opinion. ;)
(>) ...and I would have made it too, except for those nosey kids & their stupid dog...
(>) excerpt of The Smiling Bandit's taped deposition, Knight Errant casefile #E385h-0516

Jonny Reload

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« Reply #14 on: <09-08-10/2050:32> »
Never thought it was such a good idea to punish your player for having a successful character. I also think that if you are able to summon a force 10 spirit without any drain damage, you are worthy of praise, not of being squashed by your own summon. But that's only my opinion. ;)
No no no, never punish them for having a good character, punish them for being a crappy role player. (Ex. if they summon Force 12 Spirit and treat it with respect and dignity, things go smoothly, if you slap it around like your personal whore, expect to have your face eaten off.)
"Do you hear that Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability... That is the sound of your death."
-Agent Smith from The Matrix