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Chicago v/s Magic

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Kiirnodel

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« Reply #45 on: <01-05-15/1526:26> »
To clarify, if I'm remembering correctly, the standard background count of 2 is in the CZ, not all of Chicago. Don't quote me, I haven't double-checked the missions FAQ.

Crimsondude

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« Reply #46 on: <01-05-15/1741:32> »
To clarify, if I'm remembering correctly, the standard background count of 2 is in the CZ, not all of Chicago. Don't quote me, I haven't double-checked the missions FAQ.
You are correct.

But because it's the CZ — an area completely FUBAR in the physical realm, astral space, and the Matrix/Resonance — it ranges from higher background counts to huge mana ebbs and even foveae, and lower background counts do "bleed" into the rest of Chicago (the CZ is only the central third of the city itself. Chicago, for those who've never been, is fucking HUGE, and I say that having just returned from L.A.).

The point is, the general background count is 2 in the CZ, and while not all Season 5 Missions to date are set entirely in the CZ, it's like the Redmond or Puyallup Barrens – you're going in sooner or later, and that Force 2 focus is dead weight. And while the default is 2, the rest of the section on background count (and signal noise) is intended to give your GM carte blanche to fuck you over with any manner of astral effects that would all make a Force 2 focus less than useless.

Inside the lodge, it should be fine. In part because, I assume, the lodge isn't in the CZ. Even if it is, I would posit that depending on your mage's lifestyle that he was smart enough to put it/live where the background count isn't 2 because it would also drive him fucking mad over time (Not a rule, but fluff-wise living around a permanent background count does tend to alter magicians over time unless/until they become attuned to it, i.e. become toxic or twisted or worse).

Tarislar

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« Reply #47 on: <04-06-15/1546:02> »
So I was reading up on Counterspelling recently v/s AE's & as I was going over the rules I got to thinking about Chicago again.

1.  Does Background count affect the Spell Defense Pool, or just Counterspelling (Dispelling) tests.
I want to clarify because it says "Tests" in the rules so I'm wondering if your pool is also penalized in a double penalty kind of thing.

2.  Speaking of Double Penalties.  If you have a test affected by magic in multiple ways, its still just one background penalty right?  Or is it per "way" that magic is affecting it.  For Example.  PsyAd with Agi Boost & Imp Ability (Blades) using a Katana Weapon Focus-3 modified by Imp Crit (Blades) and Inc Attr-STR-2  Attacking a Bug Spirit in the CZ (Background Count-2)

So, would the "Blades" Test be affected by a -2 (Ability), -4 (Ability/Boost), or -6 (Ability/Boost/Focus) or some other combo? 
And would damage still be STR+2+3 since DV isn't a "Test" or would it also be reduced since IncAttr is modifying it?

3.  Speaking of Background Count.  I read that "active" Lodges are effectively aspected towards the creators tradition but can't find a level.
Is it just a low level 1?  Or is it the level of the lodge?  Or something else like based on how long its been set up?


Raven2049

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« Reply #48 on: <04-06-15/1649:28> »
So I was reading up on Counterspelling recently v/s AE's & as I was going over the rules I got to thinking about Chicago again.

1.  Does Background count affect the Spell Defense Pool, or just Counterspelling (Dispelling) tests.
I want to clarify because it says "Tests" in the rules so I'm wondering if your pool is also penalized in a double penalty kind of thing.

2.  Speaking of Double Penalties.  If you have a test affected by magic in multiple ways, its still just one background penalty right?  Or is it per "way" that magic is affecting it.  For Example.  PsyAd with Agi Boost & Imp Ability (Blades) using a Katana Weapon Focus-3 modified by Imp Crit (Blades) and Inc Attr-STR-2  Attacking a Bug Spirit in the CZ (Background Count-2)

So, would the "Blades" Test be affected by a -2 (Ability), -4 (Ability/Boost), or -6 (Ability/Boost/Focus) or some other combo? 
And would damage still be STR+2+3 since DV isn't a "Test" or would it also be reduced since IncAttr is modifying it?

3.  Speaking of Background Count.  I read that "active" Lodges are effectively aspected towards the creators tradition but can't find a level.
Is it just a low level 1?  Or is it the level of the lodge?  Or something else like based on how long its been set up?

1: My guess would be that it would affect only tests tied to your magic attribute, so Banishment: Yes, Dispelling: Yes, Adding counterspelling dice to your teammates resistance test: no

2: that would suck on my Adept. im hoping thats a big no

3: logically it would be rating, but in my opinion it would be only while the character is within the lodge. and personally i wouldn't allow it to be used in a "temporary lodge" mainly because it is "temporary" not a place where multiple castings and the flow of the same type of energy would be happening over and over

none of this is backed up with facts, so i reserve the right to change my opinion ;)

Tarislar

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« Reply #49 on: <04-07-15/1452:01> »
So I have re-read the Missions FAQ & I'm guessing that it would not affect the Defense Pool since it already penalizes the test once for being Spellcasting.

Can anyone confirm the Aspected power level part for being in a Lodge?  I know it mentions mages having home court advantage.  I'm just trying to figure out if its related to the Lodge Rating or if its a Generic 1-3 based on Background descriptions & how you decide that #.

Lucean

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« Reply #50 on: <04-14-15/0702:18> »
1. Spell Defense is not affected.
2. The attack suffers a dicepool modifier of -2. It's not relevant how much magic is adding to the attack. The damage of the attack is unaffected by background count.

Tarislar

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« Reply #51 on: <04-14-15/1531:37> »
Thanks, 
The more I read in the books, on this forum, & google search for other forums it does look like that is the case.

So. 
1.  Defense Pool Unaffected.
2.  Only 1 time penalty
3.  Lodge Rating is the background, same as mana barrier.


Bull

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« Reply #52 on: <04-14-15/1903:32> »
Correct.

Though do keep in mind that Foci do not get a dice penalty, but are instead reduced in Force by the background count.  So this can hit you with a double whammy, potentially, espeically if you're an adept relying on Qi Tattoo's too heavily.

Bull
« Last Edit: <04-14-15/1914:47> by Bull »

halflingmage

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« Reply #53 on: <04-16-15/2337:28> »
I have not played in any of the season 5 mission, but in general I do think it was a poor design choice to make background counts so ubiquitous in the Chicago area.  It know it fits the story, but it amounts to nothing but a general nerf to awakened characters.  Background counts and aspects are something that should come out once in a while, to emphasis you are in some serious drek, like a bug spirit nest of a toxic zone.  But if the whole campaign is like that then its basically just a way to not make magic work as well as RAW.  How would the deckers feel if they spend the entire campaign in a heavy static zone, or the street fighters were told no APDS ammo and all the damage values are decreased by one.  It should be a trick you pull out once in a while, not something you constantly have to deal with.

Lucean

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« Reply #54 on: <04-17-15/0616:08> »
According to the rules the CCZ should also qualify pretty easily for penalties due to noise because of static zones.

If you don't like the setting you can stay away from it, since you know what you can expect. Knowing upfront that you will face difficulties is certainly better than being told afterwards. And additionally there still is Cleansing, which has been toned down but still works in reducing the effects of background count for the awakened using it. With the ability to carry 7 Karma over from character creation it's not that far off, if you think that you need it badly.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #55 on: <04-17-15/0812:50> »
halflingmage
You do realize that there's a permanent Rating 2 Static Zone in the CZ, right?

Also, the CZ is not the whole of Chicago. Just figured I'd point that out, as it's only if and when you go into the CZ that the background count takes effect.

Top Dog

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« Reply #56 on: <04-17-15/0928:06> »
halflingmage
You do realize that there's a permanent Rating 2 Static Zone in the CZ, right?

Also, the CZ is not the whole of Chicago. Just figured I'd point that out, as it's only if and when you go into the CZ that the background count takes effect.
Static Zones are much easier to deal with, though. Most characters will barely notice a R2 (it's not enough to stop wireless boni for street sams and the like), and deckers and riggers have cheap and easy ways to get rid of static. It's worse for Technomancers.

Meanwhile it hits everything magicians do, and often hits them double. Cleansing has a very high cost in actions (in combat anyway). Adepts do have decent ways to mitigate it though, via Adept Centering and Heightend Concentration (although at a higher relative cost than negating noise).

Tarislar

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« Reply #57 on: <04-17-15/1355:44> »
IIRC the CZ is described as the middle 3rd of Chicago City proper?

So you have the suburbs as the "Outer Ring", then you have the "Middle Ring" of actual Chicago City, then you have the CZ as the "Inner Ring" in the middle of the city.   Not that I'm saying its litterally in rings, I'm just picturing it that way.

I guess to put it in Seattle Sprawl terms,  I'm picturing it as the CZ covers 1/3 of Seattle Downtown District, with the other 2/3 clear & all the other Districts are also clear.  (Well, they might have their own "bad" area, but they are not part of the CZ Count of 2.



Anyway, a Couple more clarifications on Background count:

1.  Background Penalties are Dice Pools?
2.  Aligned Bonuses are Limits?
So they don't work the same, or exact opposite, of each other.


3.  The Example on Page 32 of St. Grimoire gives the Wiccan a bonus to limit for her Summoning.
So in turn should the Spirit receive the dice pool penalty to resist the summoning as well?
Or no because its not actually in the ring yet when its being summoned. 
But in turn if she attempted to bind it then it would have that -3 penalty to it.


4.  I was recently reading a thread where Bull talked about Spirits using Edge to resist Summoning. 
Is there some fixed rule on when that should apply?  All spirits do this?  Only if you have a bad spirit rep?
This seems really potent for spirits to cause massive drain damage.  But if combined with #3 above would mitigate it some.


5.  Finally, it says Dual Natured/Astral creatures take BGC count penalties to all actions.  V/S it says to all Skill Checks for Characters.
I'm wondering if this means DN/Astral take penalties to stuff like Damage Resitance, Initiative, Drain, & Defense, the stuff Characters are NOT taking penalties for.  Or if its supposed to be the same as Characters.

Top Dog

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« Reply #58 on: <04-17-15/1418:42> »
Anyway, a Couple more clarifications on Background count:

1.  Background Penalties are Dice Pools?
2.  Aligned Bonuses are Limits?
So they don't work the same, or exact opposite, of each other.


3.  The Example on Page 32 of St. Grimoire gives the Wiccan a bonus to limit for her Summoning.
So in turn should the Spirit receive the dice pool penalty to resist the summoning as well?
Or no because its not actually in the ring yet when its being summoned. 
But in turn if she attempted to bind it then it would have that -3 penalty to it.


4.  I was recently reading a thread where Bull talked about Spirits using Edge to resist Summoning. 
Is there some fixed rule on when that should apply?  All spirits do this?  Only if you have a bad spirit rep?
This seems really potent for spirits to cause massive drain damage.  But if combined with #3 above would mitigate it some.


5.  Finally, it says Dual Natured/Astral creatures take BGC count penalties to all actions.  V/S it says to all Skill Checks for Characters.
I'm wondering if this means DN/Astral take penalties to stuff like Damage Resitance, Initiative, Drain, & Defense, the stuff Characters are NOT taking penalties for.  Or if its supposed to be the same as Characters.
Not entirely an expert, but
1) Yes (except for initiative which is a flat penalty)
2) Yes
So yes, they're opposite.

3) The spirit would receive a bonus to his limit, not the penalty - the spirit would be aligned as well. Though, as you say, it's not actually in it yet, so maybe not? Either way, it wouldn't matter, as the spirit's roll doesn't have a limit. Same for binding.

4) There is no fixed rule on it. Spirit rep and oversummoning are common situation where people apply it, but it would be up to the GM (although using it on every roll would be very bad form for the GM).

5)  Your descriptions are off, and in a way the wrong way around.
Characters take a penalty equal to all tests boosted by magic, not just skill tests. That includes DR, Initiative, Drain, defense, whatnot (but only if the thing in question is boosted by magic).
DN/Astral character characters, however, "only" take a penalty to all actions. DR, initiative, drain and defense are not actions, so they take no penalty.
So it's different, but the other way around.

Hibiki54

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« Reply #59 on: <04-17-15/1420:55> »
Replies in BOLD

Anyway, a Couple more clarifications on Background count:

1.  Background Penalties are Dice Pools? Background Counts effect all magic that involves a Force, foci and dice pools. If you casts spells you will suffer a dice pool penalty of the BC. If you are sustaining a spell or have a foci and enter an area of BC the Force of the Spell or Foci will be temporary suppressed by the BC. BC does not effect Adept Powers unless those powers effect are related to a dice pool such as Improved Ability, Attribute Boost, etc. BC does not effect Improved Reflexes in terms of initiative. It will effect the power in relation to defense tests and reaction tests.

2.  Aligned Bonuses are Limits?
So they don't work the same, or exact opposite, of each other.
Yes.


3.  The Example on Page 32 of St. Grimoire gives the Wiccan a bonus to limit for her Summoning.
So in turn should the Spirit receive the dice pool penalty to resist the summoning as well?
Or no because its not actually in the ring yet when its being summoned. 
But in turn if she attempted to bind it then it would have that -3 penalty to it.
The Spirit would NOT receive a dice pool penalty to resist because it does not exist in the Astral until after you have summoned it. However, it will suffer the BC penalty when binding.


4.  I was recently reading a thread where Bull talked about Spirits using Edge to resist Summoning. 
Is there some fixed rule on when that should apply?  All spirits do this?  Only if you have a bad spirit rep?
This seems really potent for spirits to cause massive drain damage.  But if combined with #3 above would mitigate it some.
This is mostly a home game thing and you will not see it in Missions unless you play with the same GM regularly in which he understands your character and its rep. But yes, a spirit can use Edge to resist summoning and binding.


5.  Finally, it says Dual Natured/Astral creatures take BGC count penalties to all actions.  V/S it says to all Skill Checks for Characters.
I'm wondering if this means DN/Astral take penalties to stuff like Damage Resitance, Initiative, Drain, & Defense, the stuff Characters are NOT taking penalties for.  Or if its supposed to be the same as Characters.
BC does not effect soak test unless you have the Mystic Armor power or have the Armor spell sustained, which will already be calculated when the spell is reduced in Force. No double penalty. It will not effect Drain unless you are using a Centering Foci.