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Chicago v/s Magic

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Bull

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« Reply #15 on: <07-01-14/1659:43> »
Most of the containment zone has no specific aspect.  It's more of a warp than anything else.  It's been twisted by far too many elements for any one specific domain.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #16 on: <07-02-14/0904:14> »
Most of the containment zone has no specific aspect.  It's more of a warp than anything else.  It's been twisted by far too many elements for any one specific domain.
I have to say, I'm disappointed by this.  It really leaves adepts in the cold when it comes to the penalties of background count, while magicians can use Clensing (pg 155 Street Grimoire) to reduce or even negate the penalty.  13+ dice (Counterspelling 6, Magic 6, Initiation 1+) against 2-4 dice of background count means the magician will on average reduce the count by 2 points even if the background count affects the cleansing test...and it can be done more than once.

Clensing is also a LOT cheaper.  To get Domain of the Spiritual or Domain of the Warrior, you first have to get a 20-point Quality (which will cost you 40 points after character creation) followed by 13 Karma for initiation...all to reduce the penalty by 2.  Yes, the adept has the option of spending an initiation on Adept Centering...but by the rules that only helps with Physical and Combat skills.  That won't help initiative, or an adept that wants to do more than jump walls and beat on the bad guy (Social adepts, for example).

Any chance the nature of the multiple elements in the background count could be reflected by allowing a partial reduction from Domain of the Spiritual or Domain of the Warrior?

On a separate note, it seems like the book has a different take than Missions on how large a "neighborhood" is.  You gave an earlier answer about the home ground quality, saying that a neighborhood is just a few blocks in size.  The example given on pg 32 of Street Grimoire infers that "the Barrens" would count as a neighborhood, and that's pretty huge (more than a square mile).  Given that it's a 10 point quality that is effectively useless under the current interpretation (at least in a Missions game), would you be adverse to revisiting that ruling?

martinchaen

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« Reply #17 on: <07-02-14/1047:04> »
Hey Bull, now that Street Magic Grimoire (wow, that's going to take some getting used to...) has been released and will (eventually) see a street day, should we expect to see the Mission specific rules for background count replaced with the Street Grimoire rules (at some point)?
« Last Edit: <07-02-14/1056:39> by martinchaen »

Tarislar

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« Reply #18 on: <07-02-14/1605:49> »
(which will cost you 40 points after character creation)
Where does it say that ?
I got the impression a Way is 20 Points whenever you buy it,  I never saw a 1/2 or Double quote anywhere.

Namikaze

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« Reply #19 on: <07-02-14/1645:31> »
Yeah, it's 20 karma to buy the Way quality.  During or after character creation.  Then it's a metamagic, so 13 karma on average.  So 33 karma in total.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

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Bull

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« Reply #20 on: <07-02-14/1825:57> »
Hey Bull, now that Street Magic Grimoire (wow, that's going to take some getting used to...) has been released and will (eventually) see a street day, should we expect to see the Mission specific rules for background count replaced with the Street Grimoire rules (at some point)?

They're largely the same, just expanded.  But yes.

ZeConster

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« Reply #21 on: <07-02-14/1913:38> »
Most of the containment zone has no specific aspect.  It's more of a warp than anything else.  It's been twisted by far too many elements for any one specific domain.
I have to say, I'm disappointed by this.  It really leaves adepts in the cold when it comes to the penalties of background count, while magicians can use Clensing (pg 155 Street Grimoire) to reduce or even negate the penalty.  13+ dice (Counterspelling 6, Magic 6, Initiation 1+) against 2-4 dice of background count means the magician will on average reduce the count by 2 points even if the background count affects the cleansing test...and it can be done more than once.
Adept Centering can be used to counter the dice pool penalty, though.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #22 on: <07-02-14/1932:13> »
Adept Centering can be used to counter the dice pool penalty, though.
Addressed in the paragraph after the one you quoted.

Fedifensor

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« Reply #23 on: <07-02-14/1936:26> »
Yeah, it's 20 karma to buy the Way quality.  During or after character creation.  Then it's a metamagic, so 13 karma on average.  So 33 karma in total.
Is there a specific page for that exception in Street Grimoire?  Because qualities bought after character creation are Karma x2, according to the main book (pg 107, New Positive quality).

Namikaze

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« Reply #24 on: <07-03-14/0048:47> »
Is there a specific page for that exception in Street Grimoire?  Because qualities bought after character creation are Karma x2, according to the main book (pg 107, New Positive quality).

Nope - I stand corrected.  After character creation, it is 40 karma to buy a Way, and then 13+ karma to buy a metamagic.
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

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Dr. Meatgrinder

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« Reply #25 on: <07-03-14/0847:10> »
Quote from: p.176, Street Grimoire
Players can amend previously created characters and retroactively purchase a Way. [emphasis in original text] This is per the gamemaster’s discretion. See p. 103, SR5, for more information about purchasing and paying off qualities.

It's possible there was intent to allow characters to purchase a Way at the same karma cost whether in chargen or in play with this statement, but this statement is explicitly at GM discretion.  As it is, this statement probably won't hold in Missions, but it's also possible that it could hold using the current respec rules in the FAQ.
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Dinendae

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« Reply #26 on: <07-06-14/0549:36> »

It's possible there was intent to allow characters to purchase a Way at the same karma cost whether in chargen or in play with this statement, but this statement is explicitly at GM discretion.  As it is, this statement probably won't hold in Missions, but it's also possible that it could hold using the current respec rules in the FAQ.

Actually, that may not be correct: Bull can make it legal to do, just as Exceptional Attribute (which required GM approval) was approved for Missions.

Linkdeath

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« Reply #27 on: <07-24-14/1441:17> »
Hmm, just giving background count a scan in the Street Grimoire and it seems to me that a default background count of 2 is probably too low. Going by the boxout on page 31, I'd say the default background count in the zone should probably be between 4-6.
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Bull

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« Reply #28 on: <07-24-14/2131:26> »
There are a lot of spots where it hits 4-6, or higher.  But keep in mind that it's been 15 years since Fab scoured the place and the bugs were active.  While it's not a nice place to be, it's settled down.

Generally speaking unless it's for cinematic or storytelling purposes, we don't usually enforce high background counts, even when there should be one.  Lets face it, almost every sprawl should have a BGC of 1 to 2, and the Barrens should probably have a 3-4, but we never wrote those into things before (Nor are we likely to continue to do so).

Plus, we really don't want to completely cripple the magic users.  We want to show that yes, Chicago is fragged up for magic and it largely sucks to be magically active there, but we still want them to be viable characters.

Marcus

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« Reply #29 on: <07-28-14/0306:04> »
A two die penalty isn't the end of the world, there lots two die penalties in the system. A four die penalty is dangerous, and certainly pushes the bar of being crippling. Just look at the conditions monitor. However as I read it, it is totally possibly to walk around a corner and get hit by 12 unsoakable stun if your character is magic, employing foci, or generally doing what the system intends for you to do with magic. That is too much risk, even a shot at that, mean there is a chance a player could simply be done for session from something she/he couldn't really do anything about. I have serious doubts concerning the viability of magic under this missions set. If such things are  included as advertised.

If the goal is to have tech take a stronger role I'm sure it will come to pass. But why do that?

« Last Edit: <07-28-14/0339:48> by Marcus »
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